Tiger 1 need a very little Buff in dmg

A 640 MP 230 Fuel unit, is a very good all around unit, that´s true and i love it, BUT i think he need a minor buff in his damage, from 160 dmg ( like any 75mm gun) to i think 200 dmg could be a nice add on. a "Little more", no 240 Because is KT grass. but 200 must be OK, like the M36.

This can be also for M26 Pershing, and IS 2 big guns doing same damage as 75mm / 76mm guns

Current M36 Jackson does 160 damage unless its using hvap rounds. If that buff did take place then Panther and Comet would need to be looked at as they would get completely overshadowed and hardcountered by heavy tanks.

Buffing axis armour is pretty much a no no right now, similar to buffing allied TDs. As a result of these factions strengths I think the armour balance is actually pretty good right now, the only things that are throwing the balance are the things around the edge like the Brummbarr.

However I don't see many Tiger 1s around atm other than Tiger aces, so perhaps it is underperforming for it's price though, 640 manpower is a **** load of MP, for the Tiger 1's price you can nearly have 2 churchills.

So perhaps however, it might be worth decreasing it's cost? Perhaps say 550 manpower and 210 fuel or something might make it more appealing. It is essentially just a panther that can kill infantry after all but it's a massive target for allied players.

A lot of the issues with these heavy tanks, (Pershing, Tiger 1, IS2) isn't with themselves, it's that their peers are so much more potent or cost effective. The issue with the IS2 for example is that it's not an SU-85. The IS2 is still great, but it's not an SU-85 so it's not worth it. Same with the pershing with the Jackson. The Tiger's issue is that the panther is far more cost effective.

A lot of the issues with these heavy tanks, (Pershing, Tiger 1, IS2) isn't with themselves, it's that their peers are so much more potent or cost effective. The issue with the IS2 for example is that it's not an SU-85. The IS2 is still great, but it's not an SU-85 so it's not worth it. Same with the pershing with the Jackson. The Tiger's issue is that the panther is far more cost effective.

The Tiger is pretty good compared to the Panther, but I think the main problem is that on most maps the Tiger just becomes an XP pinata for Allied TD meta and unlike the Panther can't reverse fast enough to escape bad encounters.

I thought the tiger is generally considered one of the better heavies all around except that it gets whacked by allied TDs for the most part like all heavies do.

The Tiger is pretty good compared to the Panther, but I think the main problem is that on most maps the Tiger just becomes an XP pinata for Allied TD meta and unlike the Panther can't reverse fast enough to escape bad encounters.

Yeah true, I hadn't thought of that actually. Looking at the stats though, the only things the panther has over the Tiger is Penetration and mobility. The Penetration doesn't really matter against anything other than British late game tanks and the IS2 however and even then only slightly.

So it seems despite the fact the Tiger is better in nearly every way, it's still not being used. So I guess either it's lack of mobility is a massive problem, or it's too expensive for it's role? Perhaps both.

Buffing the damage I don't think is the fix, also I'm not really a fan of messing with those sort of stats, I like the fact that most medium tanks will die in 4-5 shots other than to things like PaK43s etc, I'd prefer the adjustment of armour and pen over damage and health any day. It's currently what I don't like about the Panther's current state is that it nearly always escapes on around 20 HP, That last shot that you think will kill it, never does. XD

The Tiger I isn't bad in isolation, but how much units are used isn't about isolated stats, it's about opportunity cost. DBP made T4 viable again, so why would you get a generalist Tiger when the Panther's a much more efficient AT pick and the Brummbar's a much more efficient AI pick?

In my view, what the three sidelined call-in heavies (the Tiger I, Tiger II and IS-2) need is to be competent generalists: they've got the AT part down, but they're lacking in the AI department.

IMO the solution is the Brummbar treatment: ditch the high scatter and squash their AoE profile to be broader but shallower. That makes them less wipey but more consistent, something the Brummbar has proven makes them much more useful.

They'd then fill a similar role to the Pershing: they can fight tanks like a Panther and have some serious AI power too.

Yeah true, I hadn't thought of that actually. Looking at the stats though, the only things the panther has over the Tiger is Penetration and mobility. The Penetration doesn't really matter against anything other than British late game tanks and the IS2 however and even then only slightly.

There are a few other factors to consider. Id like to point out panther mobility advantage is across the board including a substantial edge in turret traverse. Panther has a longer base range which coupled with its faster mobility make it easier to poke in and take a shot.

The panther is substantially cheaper per unit and can hit the field earlier than a tiger due to cp requirements, but tiger allows you to skip tier 4 or even tier 3 tech as it is a callin.

Panther actually ends up with skightly better armor than the tiger at vet 2 though the tiger ends up with equal range at its vet 2.

Honestly panther is just way more cost effective at fighting heavier allied tanks while the tiger is more of an oversized panzer 4 generalist.
Only change i might be for is a slight reduction in mp cost for tig.

Tiger I is more of an option you get with a Commander, often letting you play a strong T3 build, then top it off with it as the Spearhead, it's new speed makes it quite the deadly predator on the sides.

Tiger I is more of an option you get with a Commander, often letting you play a strong T3 build, then top it off with it as the Spearhead, it's new speed makes it quite the deadly predator on the sides.

That's pretty much exactly what I use it for. I usually only tech tier 4 for the panzerwerfer. Although my OST play style is pretty outdated. XD

So it seems despite the fact the Tiger is better in nearly every way, it's still not being used. So I guess either it's lack of mobility is a massive problem, or it's too expensive for it's role? Perhaps both.

I think the Tiger's main drawback is low range at 45, while not having enough armor nor speed to make that work against Allied TDs. It has to get close and personal to do damage, but then it can't get out. Perhaps buff range a bit to 50.

IMO the solution is the Brummbar treatment: ditch the high scatter and squash their AoE profile to be broader but shallower. That makes them less wipey but more consistent, something the Brummbar has proven makes them much more useful.

I agree for KT and IS-2, but I think Tiger's AI is generally fine. It has pretty good accuracy/scatter and AOE versus infantry.

I agree for KT and IS-2, but I think Tiger's AI is generally fine. It has pretty good accuracy/scatter and AOE versus infantry.

The Tiger's Firerate is pretty good too tbh, which helps.

Yeah true, I hadn't thought of that actually. Looking at the stats though, the only things the panther has over the Tiger is Penetration and mobility. The Penetration doesn't really matter against anything other than British late game tanks and the IS2 however and even then only slightly.

So it seems despite the fact the Tiger is better in nearly every way, it's still not being used. So I guess either it's lack of mobility is a massive problem, or it's too expensive for it's role? Perhaps both.

Buffing the damage I don't think is the fix, also I'm not really a fan of messing with those sort of stats, I like the fact that most medium tanks will die in 4-5 shots other than to things like PaK43s etc, I'd prefer the adjustment of armour and pen over damage and health any day. It's currently what I don't like about the Panther's current state is that it nearly always escapes on around 20 HP, That last shot that you think will kill it, never does. XD

Tiger basically is cost ineffective ontop of being countered by much cheaper allied options. At the same time the t4 has two units that do the Tigers job better for cheaper depending on what you want. It also basically has no window of opportunity since the TDs likely come out at the same time or earlier depending on how the game goes. Allied TD meta killed the heavy meta basically. The only "heavy" you see now is the pershing because it is effective against mobile defense and Panthers (I think).

Tiger basically is cost ineffective ontop of being countered by much cheaper allied options.

It being countered as a tank killer makes sense: if a heavy tank could take on its weight in tank destroyers it'd be brutally difficult make a comeback against them.

The heaviest just need sufficiently good AI performance to make up for it. Otherwise it's just an expensive Panther.

It being countered as a tank killer makes sense: if a heavy tank could take on its weight in tank destroyers it'd be brutally difficult make a comeback against them.

The heaviest just need sufficiently good AI performance to make up for it. Otherwise it's just an expensive Panther.

Yeah it use to be an huge issue when TDs struggled against heavies and I honestly prefer Medium+TD meta over heavy spam meta that plagued coh2 a few years ago.


That being said I think the Tiger could use a slight price decrease or maybe Buffs to mgs as we don't want another wipe machine like the old KT either.

It being countered as a tank killer makes sense: if a heavy tank could take on its weight in tank destroyers it'd be brutally difficult make a comeback against them.

TDs should counter heavy tanks, just not as effectively as they do now IMO. If they are positioned even slightly well, a Tiger has no chance against Allied 60 range TDs with its low 45 range and slow speed because they can just kite away safely while returning deadly fire.

Giving the Tiger a bit more range would help it a lot, so it can effectively engage when TDs are slightly out of position without having to literally banzai rush (45 range) them to take a shot. Decreasing the range advantage TDs have (by buffing the Tiger's range) would keep them as effective as they are now, but would greatly increase the amount of skill needed to micro them to this full potential as it becomes much more risky to engage.


Otherwise I'd settle for a price decrease that better reflects its current restrictions.

Current M36 Jackson does 160 damage unless its using hvap rounds. If that buff did take place then Panther and Comet would need to be looked at as they would get completely overshadowed and hardcountered by heavy tanks.

Why would that be bad?

Tbh while I know it's too late in the game I wish damage was relative to the caliber of the gun for the sake of new players. One shouldn't have to dive into the stats to find out that the 88 deals the same damage as the 75 unless it's a kt then it deals as much damage as a 152, unless that 152 is lobbed from a howitzer, then it deals as much damage as a 76, which is exactly half the damage of a pak 43s 88.... Which is the same damage as the 76mm 17lb, which ends up being more than the 88 of the elefant who deals the same damage as the 128 of the Jagdtiger who deals almost double the damage of the 122 of the is-2 who deals the same damage as the 57mm at gun..

Tiger suffers from the 60 range td meta.

At vet 2 it becomes kind of useable because of the range buff.

But generally speaking it's just a Panzer IV with slightly better stats with the difference that two Panzer IVs will do the job as well and way earlier.

Why would that be bad?

A Comet (800 hp) that dies to 4 shots (200 damage each) and almost costs the same as a Tiger if you include the hammer tech would be utterly useless sure it has better speed and nondoc smoke/phosphor at vet1 but it will be hard to make it work vs tigers so it might only bully mediums and some infantry and gets hardcountered by heavys or tankdestroyers.

Same goes for t34/85, M4A3E8, Sherman Bulldozer (both variants) (hp between 720 and 800 compared to 640 for mediums) so pretty much every single premium medium tank will have a worse time while fighting against Tigers. I think it might go that far that their cheaper counterparts will not only more efficient at fighting vs heavy tanks but also nearly as effective.