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Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 19:14 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 18:59 PMthedarkarmadillo The Soviet don't lack for munitions seeing as they don't have a sink. Weapon upgrades? Nope. Pintle mgs? Nope. Fancy pants weapon racks? Nerp. Bunkers to lick down areas without population cost? Nohohope. Cheap mines and situation abilities are all they have to spend muni on unless you pick a doctrine with a sink. as a soviet player id say never let ur muni float unless u have a doctrinal ability in mind... i try to keep it below 200 at best by spamming as many mines as i can... its fairly effective tbh to the point where i can safely skip the SU-76 and head straight to the SU-85/T-34-85... also the soviets have 1 real muni sink and thats engie flamers... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 19:10 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 18:49 PMVipper Check armor value again and check chance to penetrate for SU-76, with nerfs to Panther few axis units have high armor. Once more keep in mind that Stug is more expensive in cost, pop and tech cost. Tracking increase sight range and provides mini map info allowing the SU-76 to enemy vehicles from longer ranges and barrage with better accuracy. It's sight bonus is broken on SU-85 with focus sight. soo lets compare the most heavily armored non doctrinal non british tanks to their counterparts 1. SU-76 vs panther... 180 pen vs 260 armor... StuG vs M4a3 sherman...170 vs 160... 2. yes the stug is more expensive and is wehrmacht`s dedicated AT tank destroyer hence it shoots more accurately has lower target size has a dedicated AT ability (target weakpoint) has more HP has more armor and does more damage 3. the SU-76 is supposed to be stopgap AT(anti medium)-capable HE platform... problem is its neither good anti medium nor a capable HE platform... and by the time T4 is unlocked it becomes obsolete In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 18:53 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 18:48 PMzerocoh tracking is such a stupid ability, why would I want to track infantry with AT vehicles? for starters the SU-76 is a dual purpose vehicle... IRL it was used as stopgap AT... but also primarily as a very capable HE platform especially when firing as an assault gun... "The SU-76M virtually replaced infantry tanks in the close support role. Its thin armour and open top made it vulnerable to antitank weapons, grenades, and small arms. Its light weight and low ground pressure gave it good mobility. " ingame it should play more like the m8 (without smoke) with stopgap AT performance really... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 18:38 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 18:08 PMStug life u know, the radar and the 60 range are not bad 1. what good is 60 range with an inaccurate gun? 2. radar? u mean tracking? id guess it is good... but not enough to redeem the SU since focused sight (SU-85) is cheaper... which further proves my point of the SU-76 being obsolete by the time T4 comes out... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 18:35 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 17:51 PMthedarkarmadillo The barrage busy needs to be a very ability. Do that and call it a day 35 muni hurts that ability hard... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 18:34 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 18:01 PMVipper You are actually mistaken 1) Stug has penetration 200 at range 25 Su-76 has the same at range 30. In addition this is simply misleading both unit are in trouble if the enemy unit are bellow that range. 2) Again you can not compare the accuracy at range 60 with the accuracy at range 50, this is again misleading. As I have point by vet 2 Su-76 has little trouble hitting a PzIv at max range. Given the cost and tech cost and the cost of enemy tanks the unit is hardly bad. 1. mmkay ill take that one... however it must be noted that almost all high armor units are all in the axis faction... high penetration on an axis AT platform only really helps against the IS-2 ISU-152 pershing churchill and comet... 2 of those tanks belonging to the weakest faction ingame in contrast to the tiger/ace panther/okw/command elefant jagdtiger jagdpanzer 4 panzer 4H brummbar all of which can bounce SU-76 AT shells... even with both tanks on a stopgap AT role the StuG is clearly more valuable even with lesser penetration... 2. ive already called for vet nerfs... it isnt a good idea for the soviets to be a veteran heavy faction anyways.. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 16:58 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 16:50 PMVipper It was pointed out many times from many people including me for at least the last couple of years. Relic chose not increase XP value for reasons unknown. Generally Relic seems to forget to check balance once units vet up and there are many unit that are OP at high veterancy. If you want to compare it with Stug keep in mind that it is cheaper and has lower tech cost, while having more range and penetration. The unit is not bad in AT role. soo how about nerfing the vet costs and vet bonuses and giving it good at or good anti infantry... as for the stug 1. close range penetration is the same 2. accuracy is soo bad that 60 more range doesnt really matter with .25 acc vs .4 In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 16:55 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 16:36 PMSander93 The 76mm HE wasn't any more powerful than other tank guns and army designations do not prove anything (Panther 'medium' tank or light/heavy cruisers are just some examples). Stug literally stands for Sturmgeschütz (Assault gun) but that one can't fire HE shells? Su-76 wasn't extensively used for indirect fire either because it was rather ineffective at it. So in conclusion the AI barrage is just a game design choice to add variety. Which is good and all, but it shouldn't be that good because it would make the vehicle too effective for its cost. As for its AT I agree I would've preferred to see a penetration nerf instead of ROF but apparently testing showed that it wasn't a very effective nerf. 1. the 76mm actually had superior HE filler and fragmentation to the PAK 40 on the stug as it had less burst filler in it thanks to the much higher velocity...meanwhile its HE filler was only slightly smaller than the 75mm m3 of the sherman but had superior fragmentation capability... more or less equal to the 75mm m3... 2. it could be used as indirect fire but its shells werent comparable to the larger guns which gave it inferior performance compared to howitzers... still id say those shells are better off than mortar shells and the game does reflect this in many ways... regardless it was used alot in this role when heavier artillery such as 152mms and 122mms were unavailable 3. nerfing the SU-76`s AT along with nerfing its AI simply renders the unit pointless when T4 arrives... even the T-70 and the m5 halftrack at least have niche uses they remain good at...but the SU-76 is fully obsolete by T4... at least buffing its anti infantry capability or giving it a role of anti medium should give it an overall purpose even with T4 around... In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 16:16 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 16:09 PMVipper The barrage it has is better than that of mortar at vet 0, since its kill radius is 1.5. By vet 2 which is about the Same XP for a vet 1 stug, it get x130 accuracy and has near 73% to score a "natural" hit on PzIV at range 60. Not sure why you call that "awful" especially since collision increases the changes. 1. it costs 35 munitions to do that barrage and cannot autofire... its AT capabilities are now horrible aswell... at least without veterancy 2. "and if XP value is the issue then its a simple matter of nerfing the XP requirements" the soviets arent supposed to be the veteran`s faction thats okw... if veterancy is a problem then a vet nerf wont hurt In: COH2 Balance
Thread: SU-7611 Jul 2018, 15:59 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Jul 2018, 15:53 PMSander93 I wish Stugs and Jagdpanzers could also magically serve as artillery vehicles. i wish the SU-76 had .4 long range accuracy more HP and 160 damage on its main gun... and had target weakpoint and stealth capabilities In: COH2 Balance