What the heck are you talking about, Russian army still uses different penetration standards, you still cant directly compare values between NATO and Russian/Soviet ammo
Furthermore, it not only German AT guns were tested but also British and US, those showed far less pen by Russian criteria... let me guess, Russians used scravenged ammo and terribly worn-down barrels too when they performed these tests?
I don't know what results came out, to what degree they differed from actual british values and under what conditions those trial have been made. What i know is that there are huge portions of important data that are missing in those tests, by the very admission of the author. Stop deflecting to avoid addressing the blatantly obvious issue here
I don't know where i exactly said that Russians use the same criteria as Nato today =/ |
Lol! That doesn't surprise me at all. They are so freaking biased that it is just funny. Chaika rekting bf109s was funny too lol.
Well, it made King Tiger playable at the very least.
Anyway that's another game.
Ps: I don't think they kept the russian bias tho, mainly because the whole aphe meta and french and UK tanks being nerfed into oblivion backfired.
Righ now the game is trying to survive with 20k players. |
You're in severe wehraboo denial man, this data shows how German uber-guns were actually only uber on paper. Claiming "it's biased" when it was internal document for engineers is hilarious
Again, like i said "internal documents for engineers" that report very limited testing of battle worn equipment by foreigners, with no mantainance whatsoever of barrel or shells and without a single word on the condition of the ammo batch, using a criteria that has been ditched because considered inaccurate since cold war, by a blog run by a russian nationalist that fail to actually show proper sources to his readers in the comment section.
But you can't possibly see any issue in this.
Instead every other source but old russian test using a criteria not EVEN MODERN DAY RUSSIA USES are wrong and humanity elected as golden standard for penetration the wrong criteria...obviously... |
Deflecting what? You are saying that sherman has to have less penetration in game, that would be nuts since it struggles vs okw p4
Why don't you actually read OP before commenting ? Look at the changes that both Panzer 4 go through. |
You cant only talk about the cost of the unit in $$$ you also need to see the logisctics cost, the materials available, its not that simple
I think you are just deflecting. |
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@ullumullu @katitof
We don't really care about who started a brawl 75 years ago. Do we ? |
Here in some the data with Russian penetration standards, all relevant guns are there aside of Firefly and Shermans 76mm. Its in Russian but you still can easily figure out guns by caliber.
Those are actual realistic values guns had in real life not "it might pen 50% at this range"
http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/03/penetration.html
Both russians and german criteria have been disproved, the most accurate is the British standard and has been the golden standard for days. You won't find a single serious place where russians and german criteria are used.
Add to that the fact that people called bullshit on TankArchives for years now and even the blogger define himself as "russian biased".
Just to give you an idea, in the comments he admits that the report of scarvanges equipment test by Soviet army DOES NOT contain data about the weariness of the equipment, and yet he use this as reliable source to contest actual firing range tests from Germans in well specified conditions.
You get it ? IT IGNORES the data about scarvenged battle worn equipment conditions and still fail to present any reason why soviet tests should be more accurate or even correct than German ones, with well documented conditions and with a barrel in good condition. |
You have a misconception about the sherman. It handled pretty well panzer ivs irl, only struggled vs the heavies and the panthers (wich were pretty rare in the western front). In the game it does a decent job vs the ostheer p4 and struggles vs the okw one. Also, if we are considering irl stats we should consider the cost and the numbers. 5 shermans per panzer 4 at the same cost lol.
Aside from being quite offtopic I think you have misconcemptions about ww2
The upgunned and uparmored Panzer 4 costed exactly the same as the basic Sherman, Ez8 costed only 10 thousand US dollars less than Panther G, the most expensive one.
http://knowledgeglue.com/cost-ww2-vehicles/
I don't know where i exactly implied it shouldn't handle P4. |
And one more thing, penetration standarts were extemely lax on what is considered a "penetration" during WW2 in Germany and US/Britain, USSR had a certified penetration standards, when you convert to those you'll realize that German 75mm on P4 and Stugs actually struggled on distances 500-1000m meters vs T-34. Penetrating enemy tank on paper which has 50% penetration standard is quite different than doing it in real life
We use the data we have got and that may even be inaccurate to some degree, but it is still the best way to measure this data.
If you have another objective criteria i'm all ears. That said, the calculator clearly shows that kwk 40 penetration of t34 with standard ammo wasn't sure beyond 500 ms.
I don't gethow that change anything in terms of overmatching. |
My point is, it wasnt different from Sherman pen which you claimed it to be, and I'm talking about actual pak40 not tank version on P4/Stug, which proves my point, normal AT gun with same caliber could not punch through hull of T-34 while gun with longer length and high velocity could, meaning that point "lol its overmatched 45mm" is invalid
If anything, as you can easily see, anti tank gun version had higher velocity due to the longer barrel, and so higher penetration. Overmatching is also factual
Like i said, t34/76 F-34 (if the model in game is L/40 one) could achieve 87mm of penetration with the best apbc shell at 500 ms, m3 75mm sherman m72 92mm.
The difference isn't huge, Can't really see why it should have better stats. |
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