Profile of jagd wölfe

So previously there was some discussion on possibly buffing the SDKFZ 221 to make it a more useful vehicle. I think there were some reasonable points on both sides but I personally agree more that any major buffs to the vehicle's timing to power could be problematic when coming alongside the power spike OKW has in the mid game. However, I also agree the vehicle feels very meh even going just a minute or two past when it comes out. I think a buff could help it just needs to be the right one.

My suggestion is to possibly look into reworking the vet for this unit in order to make it more useful after it's combat abilities fall off.
This link has the current vet for the 221 and I want to propose some changes to it. I think the most notable thing is the AT mine buried so far in vet it may as well not exist. I want to redo the vet and shuffle things around.


Vet 1 - Unlocks the "Defensive Smoke" ability.
+10% accuracy.
-11,1% received accuracy.

Vet 2 - +30 additional health points.
+30% accuracy.

Vet 3 - Unlocks the "Riegel 43 Anti-Tank Mine" ability.

Vet 4 - +20% maximum speed.
+20% rotation speed.
+20% ac/de-celeration.
+30% sight radius.

Vet 5 - -25% received damage while in "Lockdown Mode".
+4 armor

So these changes would do a couple things overall.
Vet 1 remains unchanged
Vet 2 would now give a notably health boost to make the 221 more resilient (it would have 270 health compared to 240)
Vet 3 unlocks the AT mine making it more realistic to be able to use this ability.
Vet 4 essentially got the other buffs that were removed from vet 2 and 3
Vet 5 would now make the 221 immune to small arms fire making it much more bulky and harder to kill as a reward for keeping it alive to vet all the way up.

In terms of new stuff for the vet you have a additional 10 health points added on and the added armor at vet 5. Otherwise this is just swapping around the various vet bonuses to activate in I would say is a more beneficial and useful way. Making it so at vet 3 the 221 gets the AT mine it sets a good point where the 221 can become a more support built vehicle as it plants mines and locks down areas as a 223.

I think this would be a good way overall to buff the 221 while not affecting that much of it's early timing while still making it better and worthwhile to keep around even later into the game.

If a change like this is done I also hope we could see the 221 go into the Scavenge doctrine also in place of infiltration grenades. I think the 221 fits very well there alongside the new volk repair kits and the whole theme of extra resources. The 223 would be a good way help rush out an ostwind, save munitions for a big 105mm strike, or even as a resource sink being able to plant those AT mines.

I see the intent here. This may work, and I think that veterancy should be looked at, but I think there's a design issue within the unit.
See, when you get the 221, you get the chance to upgrade it for 15 more fuel to a 223.
You get additional armor, health signal relay and lockdown mode. The problem is that when you upgrade it to a 223 you spend quite a lot of fuel because of the chance to have the car double any sector income. This is a disincentive to using it as combat unit, because the unit doesn't have enough dps potency to pay back the resource increase it would grant by sitting in a sector.

What I proposed is to split the upgrade in 2. The first one, the radio set, costs 5 fuel and grants the armor and health bonus, as well as radio relay. The second, call it "logistic car" for example, would cost 10 fuel, is a further upgrade that adds the lockdown ability. This would allow who wants to use the 221/223 offensively and try to reach Riegel mines a chance to do so without fully paying an exorbitant price. 20 fuel for a 223 without lockdown mode after the first truck set up would keep it in line for timing and cost with similar light vehicles, the m20 for example.

Armor still needs some work, (105, 240mm) but I don't really have a problem with the M10. Its never going to be a powerhouse in team games, where range and frontal penetration are king, but its good in 1v1 and retains some limited utility as a cheap Rocket Arty diver in team games.

It doesn't really need to be a scaling monstrosity that tag teams the first P4 and then spends the rest of the game being a pseudo Jackson. Its competitor at this cost and power level is the Stug. If it feels similarly powerful to that, then its fine. Only real change I would argue it could use is a size adjustment to bring it in line with the new medium tank sizes.

I'd rather spend what little time is left working on the other parts of Armor. (before the E8 crushes all other discussion again)

Exactly because its competitor is the StuG. The StuG starts with a penetration that is comparable to M10 penetration if it received a 30% pen bonus.
I don't think that the M10 should be much better than it is now, and I realize that the StuG is much less mobile, has a different role and has no turret, but I still think that an 80 fuel TD shouldn't require a munition ability to boost its penetration. Changing it so that, by vet 2, the M10 gets a passive penetration buff to StuG level seems reasonable enough. It's not gonna counter King Tigers

Sure, but remove retreat then.

Uh yeah, sounds fine to me. I just find weird that so many people are pissed off by retreat. I don't see it ever being used except for when the at gun is recrewed under heavy fire, which honestly probably benefits team weapon stealer more than owner.

And the shield mechanic is buggy AF. Not really something that is detrimental when trying to defend the AT gun. Retreat is still the best feature on raketen, one that saves it more times than all the gun shields combined on all factions.

It's not the infantry dps, it's colliding with projectile based weapons, meaning it acts as a tank shell hitting a sandbag and barely damaging the infantry, while with the raketen a single shell can kill a full health loader + gunner entity

Yeah they went from 0,82 to the basic 0,91 rec acc.

And Sander already proved that the VSL Stg is no downgrade compared to the VSL g43. The only nerf there was the oneshot model potential. That was a fair nerf. Even Sections lost that a couple of patches ago.

It was a nerf. I didn't see Sander post but I doubt he meant to say that the squad wasn't nerfed, overall but especially within 15 meters range
The difference at max range between G43 and stg44 is neglegible.

The fact is that VSL are undeniably a poor choice and can be seen by durectly comparing it with mg42 grenadiers

5Man Grens are fine.

No they aren't

They are stronger Volks with better snare, healing, better nade and really good scaling.

Which is not an high bar since Volksgrenadiers are the worst infantry unit in game, with the worst scaling, and OKW has the most expensive healing system. Still, 30mp reinforce cost is terribly overpriced for slightly better volks squad. They are actually probably more or less what volksgrenadiers should be changed to be, especially considering their actual decent veterancy, but with volksgrenadier reinforce time and cost (25mp), surely not with GRENADIERS reinforce time and cost (30mp)

Sure they bleed more than lmg Grens, but on some maps where lmg dont work very well they can be a solid alternative.

No, G43s and Panzergrenadiers can be a solid alternative, surely not VSL. We can put VSL and mg42 grens behind the same cover in cheat command and I'm quite sure that mg42 grens would still come out on top