u cant bring statistics here.. thats not fair. Axis cant get have a reliable blobb stopper
Exactly that is the mentality of many people here…
They are crying because their 60 range op tank-hunter bounces every 10th shot. But wait… you have a tank-hunter and cry because your PaK get countered by an AI-tank? xD |
So you agreed with incendiary rounds that other people are exaggerating about the brumbarr, and then you actually made this claim?
And the fact that you guys are complaining about the armor nerf says everything to me. God forbid you actually have to pay attention to the unit and it can't just soak up multiple AT shots in a row.
The old brumbarr had better armor than the Tiger/Pershing at vet 2. It's absurd that anyone would defend that
Grenades do not perform like that. What grenade can be thrown the range of an AT gun? Also when arty kills an AT gun, it's not killing it's own counter. The broken bunker buster was allowing it to do just that.
Sooo… an unit with 35 range… it is your fault to get hit? lööl Nr. 1
Sooo… rifle-nade now has nearly the same range… lööl Nr.2
Edit: Tiger Ausf. 1 has armor? xDD |
Watch the Luvest vs Stuve game and you will see the obvious issues with the old brumbar, one shotting 6pdr from max range, wiping entire squads, medium tank shots just completely useless against old armour and magic smoke.
Really biggest issue was the armour with vet, medium tanks ad even t-35/85 just couldn't deal the finishing blow when you needed to and it escaped with 10% health. I felt for luvnest and ref that game because stuve and his boyfriend got totally outplayed, they just relied on cheese to scrape a win.
Because of bad placement, all artys and all grenades perform like that. Only some mines got a limit of killing some patches ago.
And yes. The range-nerf is acceptable, if the armor doesn't get nerfed too. Because the Brummbär need that, or it becomes useless as breakthrough unit. And that is its job.
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I read your statements about Peewerfer and wonder, do we even play the same game?
When I will come home from work I will try to find some replays where AT guns were decrewed by Pwerfer in the beginning of attack.
For now I can only say that even removing veterancy from AT gun is already huge effect (aside from doing manpower damage and forcing enemy to divert one of his infantry squads to recrew it)
I save the Panzerwerfer for the rearguard. More relevant in my opinion, waiting until the "skirmishers" arrive. So you can also hold the ground. That for a Vet0 Panzerwerfer, with Long cool-down.
And, yes. It is possible to kill the hole crew of a PaK. You have to be at range 40 with the Werfer and you will get him with ~80% i am sure. But Brummbär is way pleasent doing it.
German tanks are simply too slow with enginee-damage, so only focus on infantry with Panzerwerfer.
And yes… Brummbär is good. But nerfing it? Instead we can fix he line-up of Ostheer, so we don't need such unit as stock. |
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Brummbär makes anouth damage do destroy the PaK if it get crewed some times, if he don't repair that. One Thing Brummbär is good for.
Shooting with Panzerwerfer on a PaK is kind of waisting th ability.
And at least, I am for making Brummbär commander-exclusive. |
Does Luchs or 222 cost 70 fuel?
444 does very considerable damage to infantry and is able to secure retreat wipes.
Luchs eats most infantry as well, hell I have experienced on my own skin how it got some RNG going for it and chewed through guard squad within 2 bursts.
Yep, comparisons are stupid. But on tool to bring it in line.
To compare M5-FlaK with Flamer is interresting. I would compare it with 222. And it suppresses and in a 1vs1 it will cost you 1/2 hp of the 222. That is balanced.
Sure, I also try to kill retreating inf. And yes, it is better than a PanzerIV or a Ostwind at that jop.
And Luchs is good. But I would put T70 over it. Versus AI and Vehicles it is better in my opinion.
I don't know the exact prices now, but for me 1xT70 + 1xPenal+PTRS + Zis is better than 1x222 + 1xPnzGren+Schreck + 1xPaK40. You can also buy one 251 for that price too. But in most situation soviet will win.
I know, bad comparison. |
Wiping the unit isn't effective enough now?
Damn, what you dudes expect axis units to do?
You are wiping Zis with Panzerwerfer? Wow, and if he has two? So you build two Panzerwerfer?
Please, you are joking.
Panzers are so bad versus PaKs, you have to kill the hole Crew or you have no chance. Only infantry can deal, but that is a tool of all fractions.
KV-8 was nerfed so many times it actually is being buffed now.
Same for KV-2 just recently, same for Dozer, same for croc.
Buffing OP units is kind of a stuipd idea.
AVRE does its job and it actually needs to get very close aka expose itself, Brummbar could just barrage ATG from outside LOS, its also very slow compared to brummbar and much more expensive.
More powerful, more hp. Bad compariosn.
Scott puts a pressure, brummbar wipes stuff.
Pressure? Every shot min. 1-2 kills. One more and the PaK is dead. More jokes?
I am for removing Brummbär from stock, because it is too good for beeing there. But nerfing it instead of change it with something else is more than stupid.
It will become useless as an unit. |
You can't only look at one unit.
If you blob along with one PTRS unit, you are guaranteed to destroy it.
That is also true. You kill with the flamer while he is so stupid and runs for you. lol
One ptrs unit alone will get wiped out on retreat.
One unit without back-up? Sure. Like everything will get killed by a T70. Which also kill your 222 and your 251. With some luck also PnzGrens with Schreck and even PaK40, because of ist bad movement (in comparison with 6pounder, witch is too fast for same Performance as PaK40)
The Flame HT is overpowered, why even deny it?
I like how biased incendiaryrounds is, the T70 is op but the flame HT is fine even though it's an even worse kind of T70 (pre-nerf).
Overpowerd? I comparison with? Flame-Carrier? KV8? Crocodile? Sure, it is cheaper, but it has the same task.
T70 does too much damage to retreating units? WHAT??????
Yes, compare it with Luchs or 222. |
You build the Panzerwerfer to deal with ATG. The Brummbär is built for late game AI. The fact that it could 1v1 (or even 1v2) ATG frontally was a side effect of its unnaturally good combination of high AI power and high armor. No stock vehicle should counter ATG with so little effort for obvious reasons.
Panzerwerfer doesn't counters PaKs effective, it counters infantry. Brummbär is the only non-doc counter beside Sniper and lucky mortar. If you don't count infantry, every fraction has.
With your logic KV8, KV2, Bulldozer, Crocodile, Avre,... need all a massive nerf then, because they counter PaKs with little effort for obvious reasons. Even M8A1 Howitzer Motor Carriage is more effective as Brummbär most the time. |
How many games should a player have for each faction so people would listen to his opinion? Give me exact number please, so it would be like a pass-card, and there were no more posts about it.
With the Brummbär changes there will be no reason to build it most games anymore. It will be counterd by PaK too easy. That was mainly why you built a Brummbär, too kill PaKs for your real tanks. Infantry is only a nice have to kill.
It is funny too see People ignor that even the current T34 can kill a PaK40 with 2-3 shots. Same performance as a Brummbär. |
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