Overnerfed Brummbar. Why am I not surprised?

Everyone complaining about Brum batshit op is just exaggeration. It needed a very small tweak at best.

Everyone saying brummbar isn't batshit op is just so bad at the game that they fail even with IWIN unit.
It got what it deserved.

Just like a few mths back EVERYONE complained 222 op because VonIvan and a few others spammed them. The REAL problem was that allied players couldn't fathom the fact that the 222 wasn't a piece of shit anymore and that a pair of 222s can no longer be stopped by a single zook or pair of ptrs. Just pure disrespect for the 222. About a month later, 222 spam meta was dead because SU and USF players finally located the "buy at gun button" on the screen. So where's the nerf for the 222? I thought so. the 222 wasn't op, it was the allied players being too lazy to adapt when they already have plenty of tools to deal with it.

If a previously obscure unit suddenly gets price decrease, hp increase, offensive capabilities increase and whatever more it got, all at once and to the point of extreme, then that is the very definition of a unit becoming op. People spammed it not because of VonIvan, people spammed them, because they became OP, you know, like people are spamming brummbar now all of sudden, like maxims used to be spammed(though, massive part for that was also other options being literal garbage) and so on.

Arguing current brummbar and pre nerf 222 not being OP is the same as screaming that PTRS cons, when they murdered infantry and destroyed team weapons before decrewing them was just L2P issue.

And no, 222 spam meta was not dead, soviets simply were the only ones who actually had tools to stop it without sacrificing everything for AT.

Same thing can be said with the Brum. People saying that an at gun can't stop a Brum. NO SHIT, SHERLOCK! Do u expect a single pak to stop Kv8 or croc? If you're gonna rely on at guns (cuz somehow u fked up and can't afford a cheap TD when Ost player can afford Brum) GET TWO OF THEM! Secondly the Brum DOESN'T one shot at guns anymore. Not full health crew. If each crewmen are wounded, then yes, a likely one hit. The only crew that get oneshot by brum is raketen crew, because they're bunched up and sherman HE has the same effect on them.

You see, just because something can damage it doesn't mean its countered.
Brummbar is durable enough to easily take 2 hits before even considering any retreat and by that time, with current gun, it'll be done with whatever it planned to do.

You've got no facts just feelings.

Between the two of us, which one of us has accused the devs of a grand conspiracy that they have no evidence for? All because that person doesn't like the nerfs to their favorite faction?

Everyone complaining about Brum batshit op is just exaggeration. It needed a very small tweak at best.

Just like a few mths back EVERYONE complained 222 op because VonIvan and a few others spammed them. The REAL problem was that allied players couldn't fathom the fact that the 222 wasn't a piece of shit anymore and that a pair of 222s can no longer be stopped by a single zook or pair of ptrs. Just pure disrespect for the 222. About a month later, 222 spam meta was dead because SU and USF players finally located the "buy at gun button" on the screen. So where's the nerf for the 222? I thought so. the 222 wasn't op, it was the allied players being too lazy to adapt when they already have plenty of tools to deal with it.

Same thing can be said with the Brum. People saying that an at gun can't stop a Brum. NO SHIT, SHERLOCK! Do u expect a single pak to stop Kv8 or croc? If you're gonna rely on at guns (cuz somehow u fked up and can't afford a cheap TD when Ost player can afford Brum) GET TWO OF THEM! Secondly the Brum DOESN'T one shot at guns anymore. Not full health crew. If each crewmen are wounded, then yes, a likely one hit. The only crew that get oneshot by brum is raketen crew, because they're bunched up and sherman HE has the same effect on them.

And then there are players that say you cant get the kill on a Brum if it overextends. Not true at all. If u can't get the kill it means the Brum is not overextending or you didn't flank to get rear shots.

100% true.

Less than 50 games as axis. I at least have a few hundred games as Allies.

Going by the information thats available on your playercard, 91% of your matches are on axis. 87% ostheer, 4% OKW. Just some food for thought.

Going by the information thats available on your playercard, 91% of your matches are on axis. 87% ostheer, 4% OKW. Just some food for thought.

Same for me. But still, it is about fairness and obvious confidences. Beside of the fan-boys there are also people which want a balanced game.


So, I hate playing Brits. Hate their autio-synchronisation and their broken units. OP and shitty at same time...
I also don't like playing US, simply no fan of blobbs and the tech-system.
Also don't like playing OKW, same reason as above.


Soviets are stabil. Sometimes way too smooth.


But yes… back to topic. You are destroying the only hope Ostheer often has. Mainly in 3vs3+. In a game PaKs counter MG-bunkers but high-tech AI vehilces are worse in their jop than a 0815 main-line unit… with that nerfs a normal T34/76 is better at countering infantry than Brummbär.

With the range buff, armor should be untouched.


You want balance? Make Brummbär be changed with StuG E and put it into T3. Make it a expensive call-in so we don't have to speak about it anymore.


And finally nerf tankhunters as Elefant and Jagdtiger and buff normal units instead. It can't be normal that eveything Alliis have it made to younter that shit. And don't come with the PaK40 argument. It is also time to nerf 6p-pounder after royal-engeneers get AT-nade.


With all that changes the ranges don't fit.

Why not set ranges new:

70: Jagdtiger
65: Elefant, ISU152
60: SU85, Jagdpanzer IV [PaK40, Zis, 6pounder]
55: Panther, Jackson, Firefly, SU76
50: StuG G [Püppchen]
45: Comet, Pnz4, T34/85, Tiger-I (Vet2 50), Pershing
40: T34/76, T70, Ostwind, 222
35: Brummbär, Centaur

1. Set all tank-hunter with turret at same range.
2. Lower the range of AI-tanks like Brummbär and Centaur.
3. Set clear differences between price-differences like PanzerIV and T34/76.

etc.

I think the Brummbar's random and unjustified mass nerfing is really unacceptable. It should have the high armour it did because its shells can be dodged fairly easily by infantry and fire very slowly with no turret not to mention how bad the Brummbar is at getting stuck due to the abysmal pathing system.

The Brummbar is Wehr's only true late game infantry counter as the Ostwind (which obviously is left untouched despite the terrible state it has been left in) is quite frankly a joke and is completely outclassed by the T70 , Centaur and any other allied AI.

not to mention how bad the Brummbar is at getting stuck due to the abysmal pathing system.

The Brummbär has heavy crush (despite being a medium tank) exactly because of that. If you're getting it stuck everywhere then that's an L2P issue.

I think the Brummbar's random and unjustified mass nerfing is really unacceptable. It should have the high armour it did because its shells can be dodged fairly easily by infantry and fire very slowly with no turret not to mention how bad the Brummbar is at getting stuck due to the abysmal pathing system.

The Brummbar is Wehr's only true late game infantry counter as the Ostwind (which obviously is left untouched despite the terrible state it has been left in) is quite frankly a joke and is completely outclassed by the T70 , Centaur and any other allied AI.

Still... I am massively repeating myself. But it could be easy balanced at the current stage. IF WE DON'T DO IT LIKE NOW!

-StuG E into T3.

-Brummbär replaces StuG E in 2 commanders as call-in. (Mechanized and revamp Defensive-Commader)

-Ostwind into T4. Becomes new weapon-provile (~OKW-base without suppresion and reload after 3-sots) and a suppresion ability on time (~like OKW-base without reload-animation for 30-45 sec. cooldown 2-3mins)


To compensate the suppression of Ostwind, HMG42 can be put into T1 again. Also Grens can be moved to T0 like in beta was. (so also the side-tech with T1 for faust makes sence)

I think we should try Stug E instead of brummbar, but also I think that 80% of OST players will want brummbar back. The reason I beleive so is that brummbar is very hard to kill if microed well, and StuG E will be an easy prey to any TD or allied medium tank. So let's try and see.

How many games should a player have for each faction so people would listen to his opinion? Give me exact number please, so it would be like a pass-card, and there were no more posts about it.

With the Brummbär changes there will be no reason to build it most games anymore. It will be counterd by PaK too easy. That was mainly why you built a Brummbär, too kill PaKs for your real tanks. Infantry is only a nice have to kill.

It is funny too see People ignor that even the current T34 can kill a PaK40 with 2-3 shots. Same performance as a Brummbär.

With the Brummbär changes there will be no reason to build it most games anymore. It will be counterd by PaK too easy. That was mainly why you built a Brummbär, too kill PaKs for your real tanks. Infantry is only a nice have to kill.

You build the Panzerwerfer to deal with ATG. The Brummbär is built for late game AI. The fact that it could 1v1 (or even 1v2) ATG frontally was a side effect of its unnaturally good combination of high AI power and high armor. No stock vehicle should counter ATG with so little effort for obvious reasons.

You build the Panzerwerfer to deal with ATG. The Brummbär is built for late game AI. The fact that it could 1v1 (or even 1v2) ATG frontally was a side effect of its unnaturally good combination of high AI power and high armor. No stock vehicle should counter ATG with so little effort for obvious reasons.

Panzerwerfer doesn't counters PaKs effective, it counters infantry. Brummbär is the only non-doc counter beside Sniper and lucky mortar. If you don't count infantry, every fraction has.

With your logic KV8, KV2, Bulldozer, Crocodile, Avre,... need all a massive nerf then, because they counter PaKs with little effort for obvious reasons. Even M8A1 Howitzer Motor Carriage is more effective as Brummbär most the time.

Panzerwerfer doesn't counters PaKs effective, it counters infantry. Brummbär is the only non-doc counter beside Sniper and lucky mortar. If you don't count infantry, every fraction has.

Wiping the unit isn't effective enough now?
Damn, what you dudes expect axis units to do?

With your logic KV8, KV2, Bulldozer, Crocodile, Avre,... need all a massive nerf then, because they counter PaKs with little effort for obvious reasons. Even M8A1 Howitzer Motor Carriage is more effective as Brummbär most the time.

KV-8 was nerfed so many times it actually is being buffed now.
Same for KV-2 just recently, same for Dozer, same for croc.

AVRE does its job and it actually needs to get very close aka expose itself, Brummbar could just barrage ATG from outside LOS, its also very slow compared to brummbar and much more expensive.

Scott puts a pressure, brummbar wipes stuff.

You're grasping at straws here.

If a unit is op, it gets the stick.
If there is no reason not to use the unit and no actual downside to it and its not mainline infantry, there is an issue with it and that issue most certainly isn't alternatives being too weak(as it was a case very frequently over the years in soviet army).

Wiping the unit isn't effective enough now?
Damn, what you dudes expect axis units to do?

You are wiping Zis with Panzerwerfer? Wow, and if he has two? So you build two Panzerwerfer?

Please, you are joking.

Panzers are so bad versus PaKs, you have to kill the hole Crew or you have no chance. Only infantry can deal, but that is a tool of all fractions.

KV-8 was nerfed so many times it actually is being buffed now.
Same for KV-2 just recently, same for Dozer, same for croc.

Buffing OP units is kind of a stuipd idea.

AVRE does its job and it actually needs to get very close aka expose itself, Brummbar could just barrage ATG from outside LOS, its also very slow compared to brummbar and much more expensive.

More powerful, more hp. Bad compariosn.

Scott puts a pressure, brummbar wipes stuff.

Pressure? Every shot min. 1-2 kills. One more and the PaK is dead. More jokes?


I am for removing Brummbär from stock, because it is too good for beeing there. But nerfing it instead of change it with something else is more than stupid.

It will become useless as an unit.

With your logic KV8, KV2, Bulldozer, Crocodile, Avre,... need all a massive nerf then, because they counter PaKs with little effort for obvious reasons. Even M8A1 Howitzer Motor Carriage is more effective as Brummbär most the time.

All those listed are doctrinal tanks and are (much) more expensive than the Brummbär. The Bulldozer has paper armor so no way it can stand to 1v1 ATGs reliably. In 'my logic' I specifically stated no stock vehicle should be as powerful versus ATGs as the Brummbär was.

You are wiping Zis with Panzerwerfer? Wow, and if he has two? So you build two Panzerwerfer?

Please, you are joking.

Panzers are so bad versus PaKs, you have to kill the hole Crew or you have no chance. Only infantry can deal, but that is a tool of all fractions.

If you use the Panzerwerfers from medium range they will have a good chance to wipe even an entire ZiS crew. And in the odd case it leaves 2-3 models alive on low HP you can use your infantry to finish them off within seconds. If the enemy has 2 ATGs, even the Brummbär wouldn't have been able to deal with that unless it got a lucky streak of bounces.

...

Brummbär makes anouth damage do destroy the PaK if it get crewed some times, if he don't repair that. One Thing Brummbär is good for.

Shooting with Panzerwerfer on a PaK is kind of waisting th ability.


And at least, I am for making Brummbär commander-exclusive.

Wiping the unit isn't effective enough now?
Damn, what you dudes expect axis units to do?


KV-8 was nerfed so many times it actually is being buffed now.
Same for KV-2 just recently, same for Dozer, same for croc.

AVRE does its job and it actually needs to get very close aka expose itself, Brummbar could just barrage ATG from outside LOS, its also very slow compared to brummbar and much more expensive.

Scott puts a pressure, brummbar wipes stuff.

You're grasping at straws here.

If a unit is op, it gets the stick.
If there is no reason not to use the unit and no actual downside to it and its not mainline infantry, there is an issue with it and that issue most certainly isn't alternatives being too weak(as it was a case very frequently over the years in soviet army).

KV-8 has not been nerfed "so many times" it has not been nerfed in years. It actually got a buff in DBP and was changed to require T4 as the majority of call in tanks.

Brummbär makes anouth damage do destroy the PaK if it get crewed some times, if he don't repair that. One Thing Brummbär is good for.

Shooting with Panzerwerfer on a PaK is kind of waisting th ability.


And at least, I am for making Brummbär commander-exclusive.

I read your statements about Peewerfer and wonder, do we even play the same game?
When I will come home from work I will try to find some replays where AT guns were decrewed by Pwerfer in the beginning of attack.

For now I can only say that even removing veterancy from AT gun is already huge effect (aside from doing manpower damage and forcing enemy to divert one of his infantry squads to recrew it)

Angry mob wants nobrain brumbar back lol

I read your statements about Peewerfer and wonder, do we even play the same game?
When I will come home from work I will try to find some replays where AT guns were decrewed by Pwerfer in the beginning of attack.

For now I can only say that even removing veterancy from AT gun is already huge effect (aside from doing manpower damage and forcing enemy to divert one of his infantry squads to recrew it)

I save the Panzerwerfer for the rearguard. More relevant in my opinion, waiting until the "skirmishers" arrive. So you can also hold the ground. That for a Vet0 Panzerwerfer, with Long cool-down.

And, yes. It is possible to kill the hole crew of a PaK. You have to be at range 40 with the Werfer and you will get him with ~80% i am sure. But Brummbär is way pleasent doing it.

German tanks are simply too slow with enginee-damage, so only focus on infantry with Panzerwerfer.



And yes… Brummbär is good. But nerfing it? Instead we can fix he line-up of Ostheer, so we don't need such unit as stock.