Flame Halftrack

Flame HT is stupidly strong, ukf has no counters early enough

You can easily have AT-gun on the field when it hits and Daimler comes very fast after it. Even fast Bofors will make you hold your territory easily.

Not being able to steamroll whole factions early game with no support is hardly same as becoming piece of shit.

And its not supposed to perform better in late game(although its THE very best and cheapest light vehicle with THE very best scaling in game thanks to being immune to 2nd ATG shot being a kill shot at vet) , its T34 of light vehicles, mobile, cheap, fights both infantry and armor, effective in numbers, but outclassed by more expensive stuff.

It never survives the 2nd shot of ATG as every single firearm dps on it deals extra damage to it all the time. Even the UC has better armor vs small firearm dps than flame HT.

You can easily have AT-gun on the field when it hits and Daimler comes very fast after it. Even fast Bofors will make you hold your territory easily.

FHT murderfucks ATGs.
Bofors simply makes it murderfuck brit elsewhere.

Not being able to steamroll whole factions early game with no support is hardly same as becoming piece of shit.

And its not supposed to perform better in late game(although its THE very best and cheapest light vehicle with THE very best scaling in game thanks to being immune to 2nd ATG shot being a kill shot at vet) , its T34 of light vehicles, mobile, cheap, fights both infantry and armor, effective in numbers, but outclassed by more expensive stuff.

It is the the light vehicle with becomes so fast obsolet that quick. 251 can still be used as refresh or flamer. Same for M5+good AA ability (better than 222) and inf-suppression. T70 can capture points and also in late-game its gun really works good because german-inf don't get AT that that mass (Long ago I used Schreck or saw them on PnzGrens). AEC can still pen mediums and support.


222 only is good with Vet2 with sigh-bonus. Or with Scope. But it is a main-line unit in my opinion. A must-have (Ostheer is kind of build around it in my opinion, like StuG G) it should get some boost in lategame.


I am for a bloob-counter like Centaure (like 6 shots of 251-FlaK for little aoe buff) or a pen-buff on time. Replacing the infantry-scan.

I don't know what you guys are on about, but it's clear to me that 1/3 of this thread needs to learn the game.

You seriously compare a Centaur or KV8 to a flame 251?
Are you kidding me?


The flame Halftrack is not a blob counter, actually blobbing is the best way to destroy a flame halftrack, you must be incredibly bad to think it counters penal blob lol.

Try it yourself and you will see.

If you blob along with one PTRS unit, you are guaranteed to destroy it.


One ptrs unit alone will get wiped out on retreat.


The Flame HT is overpowered, why even deny it?
I like how biased incendiaryrounds is, the T70 is op but the flame HT is fine even though it's an even worse kind of T70 (pre-nerf).

T70 does too much damage to retreating units? WHAT??????

You can't only look at one unit.

If you blob along with one PTRS unit, you are guaranteed to destroy it.

That is also true. You kill with the flamer while he is so stupid and runs for you. lol

One ptrs unit alone will get wiped out on retreat.

One unit without back-up? Sure. Like everything will get killed by a T70. Which also kill your 222 and your 251. With some luck also PnzGrens with Schreck and even PaK40, because of ist bad movement (in comparison with 6pounder, witch is too fast for same Performance as PaK40)

The Flame HT is overpowered, why even deny it?
I like how biased incendiaryrounds is, the T70 is op but the flame HT is fine even though it's an even worse kind of T70 (pre-nerf).

Overpowerd? I comparison with? Flame-Carrier? KV8? Crocodile? Sure, it is cheaper, but it has the same task.

T70 does too much damage to retreating units? WHAT??????

Yes, compare it with Luchs or 222.

You can't only look at one unit.

Nope, but making the spectrum wider doesn't make things look any better for FHT as stuff that supports it is pretty powerful and cost effective itself already.

Overpowerd? I comparison with? Flame-Carrier? KV8? Crocodile? Sure, it is cheaper, but it has the same task.

It doesn't need to be compared to anything else.
It punches way above its weight.
And if you REALLY want to be picky, lets compare its effectiveness with another reinforcement halftruck with 90 muni AI upgrade, M5 quad. Compared to FHT, M5 quad doesn't deal any damage at all and I'm going to ignore M5 longer range vs FHT garrison clearing capabilities, because that's tradeoff of one another.
Raw firepower for cost is way too much, which we have perfectly seen during CGS2, literally no more evidence is needed then dozens of reps from these games.

Yes, compare it with Luchs or 222.

Does Luchs or 222 cost 70 fuel?
444 does very considerable damage to infantry and is able to secure retreat wipes.
Luchs eats most infantry as well, hell I have experienced on my own skin how it got some RNG going for it and chewed through guard squad within 2 bursts.

Does Luchs or 222 cost 70 fuel?
444 does very considerable damage to infantry and is able to secure retreat wipes.
Luchs eats most infantry as well, hell I have experienced on my own skin how it got some RNG going for it and chewed through guard squad within 2 bursts.

Yep, comparisons are stupid. But on tool to bring it in line.

To compare M5-FlaK with Flamer is interresting. I would compare it with 222. And it suppresses and in a 1vs1 it will cost you 1/2 hp of the 222. That is balanced.

Sure, I also try to kill retreating inf. And yes, it is better than a PanzerIV or a Ostwind at that jop.

And Luchs is good. But I would put T70 over it. Versus AI and Vehicles it is better in my opinion.

I don't know the exact prices now, but for me 1xT70 + 1xPenal+PTRS + Zis is better than 1x222 + 1xPnzGren+Schreck + 1xPaK40. You can also buy one 251 for that price too. But in most situation soviet will win.

I know, bad comparison.

The Flame HT is overpowered, why even deny it?
I like how biased incendiaryrounds is, the T70 is op but the flame HT is fine even though it's an even worse kind of T70 (pre-nerf).

T70 does too much damage to retreating units? WHAT??????

I said both T70 and FHT are in a good spot right now. You're the one STILL asking for nerfs for FHT. By that logic, then T70 should also get a nerf.

BTW u think mg42 is op. That unit has been the same for a very long time.

The T70 is in a good spot, it has already be adjusted so that it works as intended.

The flame HT is in a "too" good spot because it's working like T70 was before the nerf (maybe even worse because the AOE lasts 30 secconds and the bad matchup for soviet and brits makes it so that you can wipe them almost all the time).

Flame HT has relatively been the same for a long time too, only now people are realizing it's op, myself I've been saying it's op day one just as I said that okw is weak before the revamp.

It's good if this unit is about wiping out static units, that aren't defended,but you can't just have a vehicle in the first 5 to 8 minutes against which you don't have reliable counters.

No guards with ptrs don't counter a flame HT, they can get it to retreat at best, it's enough but even this is rare to see happening.

As for my claims, MG42 is op.
The flame HT it has remained relatively unchanged (just 3 small nerfs along with other flame vehicles and the vet ability).
It doesn't matter to me how long a unit was that way, I stand by my opinion, I don't see how time matters, it's well known that it took a long time for the balance team to fix a lot of issues.

See how long it took to nerf the T70.

I'm curious, what about changing the penal AT upgrade to 3 ptrs (reduce deflection damage to keep it the same vs later armour) to make it SLIGHTLY more bursty against lights like the FHT? ROF could be adjusted so it's not an outright 50% dps buff. This would have the added effect of further reducing penals DPS and making it even more of a trade off to get the AT package. PTRS should be the answer to something like the FHT not the zis.

Edit:less direct damage and more DOT would also be a good change for the FHT. Kv-8 as well for that matter (church isn't going to chase, nor is the hetzer so I think they are fine)

I'm curious, what about changing the penal AT upgrade to 3 ptrs (reduce deflection damage to keep it the same vs later armour) to make it SLIGHTLY more bursty against lights like the FHT? ROF could be adjusted so it's not an outright 50% dps buff. This would have the added effect of further reducing penals DPS and making it even more of a trade off to get the AT package. PTRS should be the answer to something like the FHT not the zis.

Edit:less direct damage and more DOT would also be a good change for the FHT. Kv-8 as well for that matter (church isn't going to chase, nor is the hetzer so I think they are fine)

And it is the counter. Stay still and don't follow it while everything is on flames. Simply stop moving and shoot.

Sdkfz.251 Flamer is complete ok.


Yes, KV8 is strong. But don't touch it.



Beside… while we speak about Flames. When will the german Flame-Bombs will be buffed? Simply give it same stats as soviet flame-call-in.

And it is the counter. Stay still and don't follow it while everything is on flames. Simply stop moving and shoot.

Sdkfz.251 Flamer is complete ok.


Yes, KV8 is strong. But don't touch it.



Beside… while we speak about Flames. When will the german Flame-Bombs will be buffed? Simply give it same stats as soviet flame-call-in.

If you don't move you get torched. That's how DOT works... One blast and you need to move.

Also yea the flame bomb strike is awful, I used it to burn down a FHQ and it took like 3 before it started doing any damage....

If you don't move you get torched. That's how DOT works... One blast and you need to move.

Also yea the flame bomb strike is awful, I used it to burn down a FHQ and it took like 3 before it started doing any damage....

Yea… 1 Penal isn't enough. But 2x are doing great. The perfomance it ok, not worse. OK. Don't Forget it is still a AI-Upgrade.

I'm curious, what about changing the penal AT upgrade to 3 ptrs (reduce deflection damage to keep it the same vs later armour) to make it SLIGHTLY more bursty against lights like the FHT? ROF could be adjusted so it's not an outright 50% dps buff. This would have the added effect of further reducing penals DPS and making it even more of a trade off to get the AT package. PTRS should be the answer to something like the FHT not the zis.

Edit:less direct damage and more DOT would also be a good change for the FHT. Kv-8 as well for that matter (church isn't going to chase, nor is the hetzer so I think they are fine)

Penals with PTRS was never a good idea to begin with.
No infantry can deal reliable damage to this unit yet, the best you can do with bazookas or PTRS is expect to push back the flamer until you get a light tank.

Like I said, this is already good, but even this doesn't happen, in most cases your at infantry will be remote somewhere and get assaulted by the flamer when it's isolated from the rest.
Even if it's not, the flamer is best used against isolated squads, whenver this happens you can be certain you will be wiped to the last squad model even if you retreat.




@Widerstreit

Dude, I can't go through all your points because they just expose your lack of knowledge and how you work out your plan in 1v1.
In one line you tell me that blobbing is bad (true), and in another you tell me that you shouldn't leave your at infantry without a back-up.
You realize that you are basically explaining that you should be blobbing in the first minutes of the game where map control is of most importance?

Then you compare a T70 TO A LUCHS AND 222? Are you serious there or just trolling me?
You understand why a certain unit performs different tasks and costs more than others? So do you...maybe...understand why a unit performs better than another one?

Why would anyone think that a t70 can be compared to a flame HT? Let alone a 222...

I said both T70 and FHT are in a good spot right now. You're the one STILL asking for nerfs for FHT. By that logic, then T70 should also get a nerf.

Too bad that there's zero freaking logic in comparing an HT to a light tank. How about we compare HTs to HTs? The 251 is clearly better than the m5, even tho the m5s upgrade is more expensive. And the m5 arrives later.

BTW u think mg42 is op. That unit has been the same for a very long time.

BTW, this thread is about the Flame HT.

Yess, please nerf this unit, to the ground if you want to. It is absolutely overperforming. I would like to ask, when did you last see the 251 used as it is meant to be used-a troop carrier and reinforcer? Srly let's make that option viable and nerf the flame upgrade. I believe that it comes out too early and has a ridiculous wipe potential.

Counternig FHT with penals is really hard. U need 2-3 squads and n element of luck. Otherwie, they get can make 1 shot max, and then get roasted. Because penals need to stand still to fire PTRS, and standing still vs FHT is deadly. U can try to stay and try to take second shot, but it will most likely end with penals retreating in low HP, and fried on retreat path. Soviets can counter FHT if they didn't go for T1 and go for T2 from the start. If you build T1, u need 440 MP and 20 fuel just to side tech. So if u take T1, IMO, the only way to counter FHT is mines and PTRS ambushes.

I'm gonna avoid the debate of the bigger thread as a whole, but it's worth bringing up that if you are in that situation with FHT and penals, it's not a bad idea to get the scout car and throw a PTRS squad in there since they can shoot while the car moves, and will be somewhat shielded from the flames too if I'm not mistaken.

@Widerstreit

Dude, I can't go through all your points because they just expose your lack of knowledge and how you work out your plan in 1v1.
In one line you tell me that blobbing is bad (true), and in another you tell me that you shouldn't leave your at infantry without a back-up.
You realize that you are basically explaining that you should be blobbing in the first minutes of the game where map control is of most importance?

Then you compare a T70 TO A LUCHS AND 222? Are you serious there or just trolling me?
You understand why a certain unit performs different tasks and costs more than others? So do you...maybe...understand why a unit performs better than another one?

Why would anyone think that a t70 can be compared to a flame HT? Let alone a 222...

Is backup blobbing? Sure, 3 penals with PTRS and a T70 is kind of blobbing. ^^

And yes, there is also trolling. I didn't start comparing units, but I trew my shit also.


I also don't know why we wrote about 222, Luchs and T70. But yes, flame-halftrack is a nice toy, which can also be dead in some seconds. The discussion is about if the changes are enough for 1vs1. But what do you want to change?

Penals are able to counter it. Royal-engeneers become AT-grnades and AEC can be build nearly at the same time. Bazookas can also deal with it. It can be annoying, yes. But because of its bad armor and hp it can also countered quickly. -> 2 hits of a PaK.