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Are you not seeing the obvious problem with your theory? If all OKW armored vehicles are supposed to be affected by this, then how come the Jagdpanzer4 (the unit that most people agree is overpriced and that we were talking about) isnt even on this list? Also these patch notes arnt up to date. The current King Tiger costs 280 fuel, the Panzer 4 costs 140 fuel and the Panther costs 185 fuel. |
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Yeah and they also made them so powerful that there is litteraly no reason to go for and m10 since they are actually more cost effective. Its ubsurd. |
King tiger's stats are pretty bad at the moment precisely because it is a non doc "super heavy" as I like to call it and thus it isn't even worth going for one. With that being said I would like to see the king tiger strike fear on the enemy once again and the only way for that to happen is if it gets tied to a doctrine and what better doctrine for it than breakthrough?
The jagdtiger would fit a lot better in the overwatch doctrine making that doctrine a little more viable in team games.
As for the sturmtiger I think it would fit pretty well in the feuersturm doctrine which would require an adjustment to the walking stuka barrage (move it to a more apropriate doctrine or to a doctrine that needs it more).
In regards to the elite armored doctrine, I don't think it should have any type of tank attached to it but instead it should focus on greatly improving your existing non doc tanks.
I couldn't agree more with what you said about the King Tiger, the King Tiger would better effect the game and preform better in this way.
I could see the Jagdtiger working well in the Overwatch doctrine, but im not sure that the Sturmtiger would work in the Feuersturm doctrine.
Do you jave any what ability should be added to the Elite Armor doctrine if the sturntiger was moved. |
yes let's give overwatch another useless unit right ? https://youtu.be/xnPjouXv-oA?t=7m5s
i think giving the m42 at gun would buff windustry remove the kv 8 immaright ? I think moving it there would make the Overwatch doctrine more viable and it would also help improve the already awful Elite Armor doctrine with the inclusion of the Jagdtiger. Also the Sturmtiger is nowhere near the awfulness of the soviet M42 AT gun. |
I think its 4 years late for this thread.
All three of these units have been greatly changed since they were introduced and more importantly there positions have been changed. The Sturmtiger used to be non doctrinal and the Elite Armor doctrine used to have the Panzer 4 battle group ability, which could actually make use of the HEAT rounds.
Maybe you could actually give your opinion on the King Tiger instead of just mocking the thread's existence?! |
I started a conversation in the shout box, that the KT seems like more of a comeback mechanic for aggressively placed tier 4 trucks. In most games you never build all 4(3) trucks. Then you start getting rekt and lose your tier 4 and you are basically out of the game for a long time (fuel cost/time to build). The KT was a requirement to keep a presence on the field. In order to be a one click comeback it needed to be somewhat OP. However it was too OP last patch so people just built the KT right away. It is probably in a better spot this patch, however you die a little every time you see one made since it instills no fear. More joy from the enemy because they get to kill it and vet up
This is also why the Luchs was so important to be stronk. Letting you skip the Medic HQ. Since it has the lowest fuel cost late game to build. Go Luchs, then Panthers until you lose your T4. Then make the medic truck and call in the KT. Mid to late game you have decent infantry and good armor. Late game switch to great infantry with healing and slow dominant armor.
TL/DR
OKW is probably in a good spot now. Just like other armies, their intended play style is just changed a little. KT could use a small buff if tier 4 is ever going to be used as designed.
I agree that the King Tiger isn't nearly as intimidating as it used to be and that is one of reasons why I think that it should be doctrinal. One of the biggest reasons for why the King Tiger has been nerfed several times is, because it is non doctrinal, so if it was doctrinal, then buffs could be justified and it could arive earlier, because it wouln't require all three trucks to have been built beforhand. |
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I have always found the Breakthrough doctrine strange, because it is a very aggressive commander based around pushing the enemy lines, but it comes with a very slow and defensive unit that really has no place in any aggressive build. The King tiger however is a very aggressive unit that is great for pushing into enemy territory, which is why I often get a King Tiger instead of a Jagdtiger when I play Breakthrough doctrine.
However, this isn't the only time that I pick the King Tiger over a specific call in. Sometimes I will choose to get a King Tiger instead of the Command Panther or the Sturmtiger, because only one can ever be controlled by a single player. I think that in this way the King Tiger keeps these vehicles from being used as much and takes away some of the risk and "flavor" of selecting certain doctrines.
For these reasons I think that the King Tiger would fit very well in the Breakthrough doctrine, because it better works with the doctrine's aggressive strategy and it would actually help those who love the King Tiger, because as a doctrinal unit it would not require all three trucks to be set up, instead just the Schwerer HQ and command points.
The Jagdtiger would work very well in the Elite Armored doctrine, because unlike the Sturmtiger, it would actually be able to use HEAT rounds which is one of the doctrines best abilities. This would allow the Jagdtiger to once again two shot medium tanks and better kill heavies and soft targets, which will further distinguish itself from the King Tiger. I don't think that this will be OP either, because of the required munitions cost of HEAT rounds and the short time period of the HEAT rounds ability.
As for the Sturmtiger I think it would fit well into the Overwatch doctrine, because of the doctrines focus on vision and explosives which the Sturmtiger both requires and provides. The Sturmtiger would replace For The Fatherland!, because it is an awkward ability and doesn't fit well with the theme of the doctrine.
I think that these changes would improve all of these doctrines and the performance of all of these OKW heavy vehicles and hopefully increase the number of these vehicles being played, because right now you really only ever see the King Tiger. |
Becase.... ?
If you look only at USF, you are right, but overall in CoH2 Pershing has everything what heavy-mediums have and only price of the true heavy.
But if you look at soviets, you have KV1 - heavy tank and IS2 also heavy but the difference between them is huge.
Well, I prefer to take overall look at the game, not just at one faction 
Well if its too expensive than maybe its cost should be reduced because its the worst heavy other than the KV 1
Yes the KV 1 and the IS2 (and the KV 2 which you must have forgot) are different but the KV 1 is still bigger and heavier than t-34 but it was an early war heavy tank while the IS 2 was a late war heavy tank.
I like to look at all factions as well but the fact is that the Pershing is definitely an American heavy just like the KV 1 is a soviet heavy but the KV 1 isnt limited too one (If I remember correctly) because its performance doesn't have much of an impact in the game compared to other heavies. |
Or command panther?
Last I've checked, command panther wasn't heavy.
But you are still limited to 1 regardless |
But Sherman or E8 are not inferior to Pz 4, Jackson is not that inferior to JPIV.
If we take a look at all heavy tanks: Tiger, Elephnat, King Tiger, Sturmtiger, Jadgtiger, IS2, ISU152, Churchills, they have 2 things in common:
- slow speed
- high HP pool
Size of a gun, AoE, cost don't matter becasue we have huge AoE like ISU, or no AoE like Elephant, very expensive tank like King Tiger and way less expensive like Churchill, yet HP pool and speed is something they share.
What about heavy-mediums? Panther, Comet, to some extent Easy Eight and T35-85, but mostly only Panther and Comet:
- high speed
- medium hp pool
- good vs infantry (except Panther)
- armor which matches heavy tanks (Panther & Comet)
So here is thing. Whic group has more in common with Pershing?
Pershing perfetly fits in heavy-medium group like Comet and Panter. It has way more in common with them than with Tiger or IS2. Heavy tank are not made for fast flank, Pershing is, like Panther or Comet.
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@UP What supierior stats Pershing has to Panther? Only AI but apart from that, armor, speed, cost and worse.
I should have been more clear, most American tanks are inferior to their German counterparts, the Sherman and the p4 are pretty similar and the E8 is definitely better but neither are as good as a Panther and I wasnt even trying to compare tank destroyers.
Gun size does definitely matter except for the Churchill because the gun sizes of heavies are all bigger than the mediums in their own faction and once again when you look at weather or not the Pershing is a heavy, you need to look at the other American tanks not the tanks of all factions and the fact is, the Pershing has a bigger gun,thicker armor and a heavier weight than other American tanks and it doesn't matter how good the Panther is because it is a German tank and it is not quite as good as the Pershing.
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