and again and again. its not about the money, its not about how much money it is, it is about principles that everyone (INCLUDING MY ENEMY) has the same fucking chance to win. not more not less it just tips games in the favor of one side just because he 1) got lucky with warspoil (lol still almost 500 hours now and 3 commander drops) or 2) he paid real life money to have an advantage.
Nah bro, just run farming tool when you go to sleep/go to work and it'll drop over time  |
This is completely wrong.
We had for a while 3 conscripts followed by whatever or just 5/6 conscripts strats. With and without PPSH.
Well I have been playing since release and I generally never saw it viable. Cons used to have chance of instant death to fire. They were always sub-par at best and only good to deny for a short period of time per se a building until an MG arrived or some other type of support. Con spam is and was heavy MP bleed and is not viable since WFA arrived with forward retreat points. It made retreats shorter and sturms melt cons.
I never played 1s but maybe that was a strat then and maybe that was bad and now unviable just like rear echelons got nerfed because of spam. the point of the game is combined arms. why would you want a game where you spam 5-6 conscripts? if you love spamming as allies, play USF and spam rifles. we do not need another faction that plays the same.
Or, are you telling me that we should buff cons so they're like rifles and we should spam them to win games? |
Yes, cons are support atm, not mainline infantry.
Maxims are mainline infantry.
People are angry that HMG is used as mainline infantry, because mainline infantry performs on engineer level of aweful and falls behind the moment first inf call-in or inf upgrade appears on axis side.
People are angry that maxims are mainline infantry.
Fucking soviet players are angry that maxims are mandatory, because without them your army just shits itself in struggle to not exceed 3:1 K/D ratio in favor of axis troops.
You can't have core unit underperform so greatly, because you'll end up with mid and late game issues.
Cons issue is lack of scaling, vet buff helped, but still each and every squad but pios will beat them, LMG grens will beat them, new volks will beat them, outscale them.
What is the point of having a mainline infantry that loses to everything and doesn't fucking scale?
NONE.
Therefore, maxims.
Only removal of maxims from the game will make players stop spamming them as long as cons and penals are nothing more but vet fodder for axis troops.
There are also people whining about DSHK, but these people are just lunatics if they think most expensive doctrinal HMG in game shouldn't perform as it does now.
I do not care about angry people but conscripts were NEVER a mainline infantry. Since the release of this game, they never have been. Even the campaign never did... the first or second mission teaches you to use them to merge with others.
That's like the same thing OST are complaining how their grens don't scale into late game versus riflemen and 5 man IS.
You should be using shocks or guards by late game.
Cons and penals just screen. My killers are MGs, mortars, and snipers until light vehicle phase. Stop trying to make them do all end all solution. that's not the purpose. Penals need a buff but cons are fine where they are. |
That is exactly what is the problem.
Cons are NOT mainline inf, because they don't perform without heavy doctrinal support and vet.
Penals are NOT mainline inf, because they are more expensive, less durable(vetted) cons.
Maxims are soviet mainline inf, because its the ONLY stock squad that is able to deal more bleed then it takes and allowing for a fighting chance past early game without heavy doctrinal support.
So what is the problem? Cons are support. Don't use them to go toe-to-toe with Axis.
I feel only penals needs to be looked at. |
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I don't think conscripts were every meant to be mainline infantry. To be honest, I use them more like support. Before WFA, they were the only ones to be able to build sandbags. They basically build defenses, and reinforce support teams so they don't have to retreat, and can be upgraded to support AT guns with AT nade or dislodge support teams with molotovs.
So if you're trying to make them capable of taking on other mainline infantry, I feel that's just homogenization of all factions demanding for a strong mainline unit that can handle a lot of situations which is not the point.
PPSH upgrade makes them viable into flanking manuevers. Flank any support team and they'll melt. If they have pioneers and mg42, you should have maxim and cons. why would you expect cons to beat pio AND mg42? |
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It'd be a good thing to fix/adjust but i think there are more things to fix at the moment. Generally, i don't find ptrs as useful in late game so not many people are complaining. |
If we want balance at all levels we need to think about how the team games also play out, partially because many players are in each format.
Your comment has been partially dissected before so I won't labor over it, but the increased micro, the inability to chase, the high pop cost and MP investment, the inability to so much as scare an infantry unit, and the very likely outcome of at least one lost Jackson for nothing are all present.
I would also like to point out that while the 57mm does a decent job in smaller games as indirect fire grows in larger games it becomes completely useless. It gets wiped so fast it cannot keep vet, and it is a MP sink. Late game it struggles to penetrate and gain vet. No other AT gun suffers from this. [side note] Why is focus forward not passive as soon as you hit vet 1? Don't you always want it on? Therefore, the USF has to rely on doc AT tanks to maintain presence, and their options are simple, Jackson or nothing. The Jackson does not give them enough AT to provide critical map presence in the late game.
Another problem, against the super heavies it is no more than vet for those units, and this means that USF without Calliope can do nothing in a team game but rely upon its Allies to break through and then try to widen the gap. If there is no breakthrough its tanks sit completely impotent on the side line, and this leads to unsupported infantry, which leads to more map loss, etc.
Just to elaborate on the 57mm AT gun. Another thread has mentioned it has 1.25 instead of 1 size? Increasing received accuracy and that's why super low rate of surivivability hahaha |
You cant argue that in a team game the enemy pushing together vs your TD with only a Stuart to back it is so much an issue on the Jackson than poor play on your teams part. A Jackson behind an armful of t34s or a soviet mine field (or even a pair or REAL at guns is nasty, throw in a con army of at nades and you have a few dead panthers. HOWEVER the lack of durability on allied TDs is amplified by the SHIT pathing in this game and I agree that heavy crush would be a great buff that isnt really a performance change, more "relic proofing" the unit...
But please look at the micro... low HP M36 and low HP stuart. Both units require munitions/timed ability/cooldown to counter be effective versus the panther. Panther micro requires? click forward and click backwards or rear reverse.
t34s in front of m36? do you play team games? that's a waste of MP and fuel. Not to mention, the moment the t34 dies, you lose LoS with the fire and smoke. That gives the panther even MORE time to close in, flank and kill low hp M36. M36 is micro heavy. Panther is just expensive. |
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lol, too much fanboism on both sides. this thread with OP clamor for panthers while another thread complained about OP comets vs panther. I don't even know why people respond to these posts. |
I don't know what your definition of "fine" is but they are BY FAR the worst combat infantry unit in the late game.
Grens - excellent vet bonuses + LMG or G43 + long range grenade + snare
Rifles - excellent vet bonuses + BAR/Mwhatever + strong grenades + snare
Volks - amazing at Vet5 and strong AT + various grenades
Tommies - strong vet bonuses + LMG upgrade/light AT + strong grenades + doctrinal snare
Conscripts - snare, lame grenade, no LMG, mediocre doctrinal short range upgrade
I won't even compare them to elite infantry, 2 cons cost more manpower than 1 Fallshimjager, Obersoldaten, Ranger etc. but they would always lose to them.
Nah... Tommies have very high upkeep. it's not doctrinal snare, that's a different unit AT boys. And AT boys snare do half damage compared to every other snare in the game.... I believe 50 instead of 100.
Conscripts are decently cheap and 6 man. I believe 2 vet 3 cons with ppsh upgrade would beat any Fallschim, Obers, or Rangers (unless you stand on one of their grenades).
Rifles/Volks are gamebreaking blobs. Grens are small 4 man squads and easily wiped later in the game by arty/indirect. |
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