The StuG III, Jagdpanzer IV, Sherman Firefly, SU-85 and M-36 Jackson are dedicated AT units: apart from the StuG III they do pretty much nothing to infantry.
You're suggesting turning them into some sort of silver bullet that isn't especially good at what it's literally for, but is a necessity to take down heavies.
You field Vipper Tank Destroyers, they'll spam mediums and you lose. Why? Because you don't win the armour battle, and they win the infantry battle as their tanks have AI and yours don't.
You don't field Vipper Tank Destroyers and build your own mediums? They'll field a heavy tank you can't fight with mediums. You'll lose the armor battle, and that heavy is pretty solid against infantry too.
The heavy tanks destroyer will destroy mediums they simply will make them obsolete since they UP for Cost.
If the enemy call-in a Super heavy you can counter with the heavy tanks destroyer, if not medium tds is a more cost efficient solution.
I still don't get the necessity. A 140ish fuel tank destroyer beats a 140ish fuel medium tank one on one, which is good. A couple of 140ish fuel tank destroyers beat a 230ish fuel heavy tank. That also makes sense.
What needs changing?
Heavy tank destroyers end up having 100% chance to hit and penetrate mediums in ranges up to 60.
That makes mediums tanks rather obsolete in late game.
this create the room for medium TD and Heavy TD all to exist and have role.
Dam thats rich. Look in a nut shell, befor I said bars are better spent on rifle men and then you filled me out on how they benefit pathfinders more. Then you said they have better synergy with rifles equiped with bars. Thats all.
Lets try to clarify.
BAR have good synergy with Pathfinder because of scatter shots. Scatter shot means that if a bar misses the entity it is firing on it would automatically check to hit a entity close to it.
That make the damage distribute among the member of the squad, total health pool might be the same but its spread among the members. That in return make the critical from scoped M1 trigger more often than if only the scoped was firing on entity.
Now if one has 60 mu and 3 squads 1 riflemen, 1 R.E, 1 Pathfinder and he is contemplating who gets the weapon the answer is a bit complicated.
Choice 1 give to R.E.
pros
weapons is the weapon with lowest DPS so that total number of weapons among the 3 squad have better DPS.
R.E. get a great accuracy buff at vet 1 by 20% no other squad get that.
Bar improves volley fire
Cons
R.E. are less durable and might have to retreat
Choice 2 give it riflemen
pros
Weapon will perform better than R.E. once riflemen hit vet 3.
Most durably squad
cons
Total weapons a bit less DPS since a superior garand has been replaced.
Choice 3 give it Pathfinders
Pros
Weapon will perform better even than riflemen once Pathfinders hit vet 3.
cons
Total weapons a even less DPS since a superior Ma1 has been replaced.
Higher chance to drop weapons
Less durably than Riflemen
I don't see the point, unless you want mediums to bounce tank destroyers.
As I have explained TD have a penetration around the one stugs has, they will bounce on mediums mostly on max range (60).
The changes aims to "create" 2 categories and balance them separately:
1) Super heavies, these can be hit easily but only specialized rounds can penetrate them. The units become strong if the appropriate counters are not build.
2) The rest of the vehicles.
If penetration values vs mediums proves too low one can simply re-balance them by increase the penetration in that category.
jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2018, 23:28 PMSelvy289
If the argument is they can be equipped with bars, I'll remind you they are ment to Excel at range. If I wanted to equip units with bars, I'll just go riflemen.
Look beside vetterancy requirements being higher, JLI are just becoming blantently superior to pathfinders and I just hate seeing units that are similar become so different in cost/performance.
That is because you incorrectly assume that bar will not benefit Pathfinder in long range, BAR more than double the DPS of the M1a1 carbine so it a great long range weapon for Pathfinders. In addition the BAR spread damage across the enemy entities especially against 4 men squad thus making critical kills from scopes Garand more frequent.
My suggestions where not about increasing their performance but bringing them inline with other units (Veterancy overhaul, reinforcement cost/time, pop )and I actually suggested a price increase when they are being deployed via spawn.
Back in the commander feedback you rebuttal me with how efficient they are on pathfinders when I specifically said they would be better on rifles, now your not, seriously? (not sure how to quote from other threads).
And again I can guarantee if anyone has used both variation of pathfinders, Ir pathfinders are better.
I am having some trouble reading your post mostly due to format and confused at what your point is, so I am not sure what you want to say but it seems like "I want to prove you wrong post".
Imo such posts should not be included in the a feedback thread, so I took the liberty of responding here.
For the record I am suspecting JLIR is over-watch may be problematic due to their very low target combined an commander ability that further boost their received accuracy, I simply have not tested enough to have an educed opinion. I have made suggestion on how they should be deployed
On the other hand moving a infantry like the pathfinders with elite weapon like paratroopers carbine in CP 0 and weapon that can critical kill without at starting on CD is another story, with it own problems. If pathfinders get spammed they can be cancerous especially at vet 3 with their extended range.
Becouse of the old history of pathfinders equipt with 2x bar (Price abuse i think it was) and current 0 CP requirement change i would highly suggest to give pathfinders 1 weapon slot expect of 2.
Don't think the weapon upgrade is accually needed becouse of intensive high ammo doctrine build. Of course that bar abuse will in effect block player from spamming p47 strafes, support weapons drop, or paratroopers upgrades BUT even though the abuse is really powerfull.
Therefore again i suggest to remove 1 weapon slot. It's not like pathfinders won't be effective without it anyway.
Generally speaking the CP 0 units in USF (new assult engineer also) seem to allow USF to add allot of pressure since the can have an army of 1 R.E. 1riflemen 1 Call-in pretty fast, especially vs ostheer.
On could have this abilities start in cooldown similar to Osttruppen and check if they need to increase that CD.
One can also have this unit start with lower quality guns and lock their weapon upgrade behind tech. That might also be a way to lower the CP for Paras and Rangers (CP to 2 (1?) weapons needing Major?)
It doesnt make sense that germans are flooding the eastern front with numbers. Most military historians identify that they rarely had local numerical superiority. Soviets usually did...
It is correct that Germans where usually outnumber in most fronts.
However their tactic depended is using their smaller numbers in focused attacks where they achieved numerical superiority locally.
I have been playing around with pathfinders and I'll say don't.
Double equipping pathfinders do not transfer the bar to another squad member, if a member who has a scoped Garand dies, their weapon will also not transfer.
IR pathfinder are better in my opinion because they are cheaper, have artillary barrage (which is very decent) have one member that can transfer weapons after double bar upgarde and have one scoped garand to sniper infantry.
Pathfinder synergy with BAR does not depend on them carrying the BAR. If a riflemen squad next to them has it the affect is similar, because it comes from the fact that BAR distribute damage across enemy entities reducing the time for critical threshold.
BAR on the other hand benefit allot by the 20% accuracy R.E. get a vet 1 and by the 14% range/20% accuracy Pathfinder get at vet 3.
At this point I would like to congratulate the MOD team for actually replacing the trip wire flares with a new ability.
I have been advocating for custom design abilities and vet bonus for units for years and I should have mention this earlier.
On the other hand there are some issues with the ability that I think they could be improved:
Guards Hit the Dirt (Veterancy 1 ability)
According to my calculation this ability increase the DPS of Guard squad by around 14% and that is with out counting that Guards can start firing beyond 35 meter (since they have a bulletin that increase sight). That range can go up to 42.5 in the case of PTRS. Imo it simply too powerful for vet 1.
To make thing even worse if the 2 PTRS focus fire on the same model (which can be depended on enemy squad formation) they can drop model really fast since 3 shot are enough.
The performance of PTRS is also confusing since the same weapon on different units has or has no AI.
In addition having 2 version of "hit the dirt" one offensive and one defensive is adds more confusion to user.
Finally the ability require little micro from the user, one finds green cover place his Guards behind and wait for enemy squads.
For all these reason my suggestion would be the following:
1) All AT rifles (Boys/PTRS) loose their AI.
Reasons, user friendly, AT tommies can get back their medic/pyro upgrade. AT tommies might become extincted with the new At grenades on Ro.E.
2) Guards and Tommiys get an ability named "take aim" that is basically hit the ground and increase the accuracy of AT rifles so that they can hit infantry.
Reasons, user friendly, reduces blobbing/A moving effects (also achieved by the current one)
3) The ability is not toggle but timed
Reasons, requires some decision when to use the ability and some counter play since opponent can soft retreat and wait for it to where of. It also is more realistic since this weapon couldn't be used while holding them.
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