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As another example, one can see how better grenadier and conscripts vet bonuses where designed
since in vet 3 Grenadier got 23% RA while Conscripts got almost double that at 40% (currently lowered and bit but split between vet 1 and vet 3, an improvement probably that should by applied in other units also. Although I would probably change their vet 0 target size to 1).
Grenadier where designed to rely more in fire power, Conscripts where designed to rely more in tenacity. |
Why does every Allied faction have to pay for grenades where Axis get them for free with tech?
Why are the means by which the USF and UKF acquire vehicle snares so punitive?
These are genuine questions, not rhetorical questions meant to incite inflammatory comments.
Why to Ostheer need to research battle phases?
Why do Ostheer need to pay for battle Phases for things that might not want to unlock and might never use like the bundle grenades for PG and their Schreck even if they do not build a single schreck?
Why do Ostheer doctrinal infantry need to tech to unlock grenades?
Why do Ostheer get no added bonus for unlocking T4 and UKF get for Hammer/Anvil?
Simply because each faction has currently its own design.
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Update to 1.8 and included Wer |
Why do you assume it should be maintained?
It should not be maintained, a unit with higher XP value gaining defensive bonus should actually be in better position since it manged to gain the same vet level while it was more difficult.
In the current example it the exact opposite.
Why you didn't suggested that SU-85 should get armor bonus with vet, because enemy AT units get bonus in penetration?
That is incorrect, the mojority of axis units do not get penetration as vet bonus. Pls check your stats.
Should all units get HP bonus with vet to make up for enemy reload bonus with vet?
No each unit should costumed made veterancy that help it improve in it role, but in balance with what the enemy units get. In the case of EFA most of the bonuses are similar regardless of the role of the unit. |
Thread: Stug25 Nov 2018, 21:07 PM
Part of the problem is the vet bonuses the units get as I described in another thread. Allot of axis vehicles get an armor bonus, which is not only nullified but going go into negative from the penetration and accuracy bonuses allied TDs get.
The hole penetration system is becoming irrelevant and it should be look at. |
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Imo units should be balanced across all veterancy level taking into XP values and how fast each gain vet levels.
In addition vet bonus should be promote the role of a unit.
Currently this not the case, in many cases, i will bring two that have been changed recently.
Examples:
The Otheer Panther and Brumbar are top tier Tank with high tech cost.
Brumbar has an XP value of 2040 and it needs 4080 XP to reach vet 2.
Panther has an XP value of 2530 and it needs 5060 XP to reach vet 2.
SU-85 is a Top tier TD with an a lower tech cost and now cost.
Su-85 has an XP value of 1790 and it needs 3580 XP to reach vet 2.
For vet 2 this units get the following bonuses:
Brumbar x1.2 armor from 240/105 to 288/126, 0.9 reload from 8.25 to 7.42
Panther x1.1 armor from 260/90 to 286/99, x1.4 turret rotation speed
Su-85 x1.3 penetration from 240/230/220 to 312/299/286, x1.3 accuracy from 0.055/0.045/0.04 to 0.072/0.059/0.052
That completely chance the balance of these units from vet 0 to vet 2.
At vet 0 a Su-85 firing at max range on Brumbar has 0.04*22 = 88% chance to hit 220/240 = 92% chance to penetrate the vehicle. Total chance to hit and penetrate is 81%. (number a bit higher due to collision hits)
A Su-85 need 5 penetrating hits to kill a brumbar and the chance to get them in row is 35%
A vet 2 Su-85 firing at max range on vet 2 Brumbar has 0.052*22 = 114% chance to hit 286/288 = 99% (going up to 100% a few meters closer) chance to penetrate the vehicle. Total chance to hit and penetrate is 99%. (number a bit higher due to collision hits)
A Su-85 need 5 penetrating hits to kill a brumbar and the chance to get them in row is now 95%
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At vet 0 a Su-85 firing at max range on Panther has 0.04*24 = 96% chance to hit 220/260 = 85% chance to penetrate the vehicle. Total chance to hit and penetrate is 82%. (number a bit higher due to collision hits)
A Su-85 need 6 penetrating hits to kill a brumbar and the chance to get them in row is 30%
A vet 2 Su-85 firing at max range on vet 2 Panther has 0.052*24 = 125% chance to hit 286/286 = 100% going to 100% chance to penetrate the vehicle. Total chance to hit and penetrate is now 100%.
A Su-85 need 6 penetrating hits to kill a Panther and the chance to get them in row is now 100%.
This calculation are clear indication that balance across vet level is not maintained. To make things even worse Su-85 has a lower XP value, become available earlier and fire of higher XP value target so it has a good chance to vet faster.
At this point the armor vet bonus is almost useless vet a vet 2 SU-85 and this units would be far better with another bonus.
This just one example for inconsistencies in balance across vet levels and I am sure one can find more. The issues it totally irrelevant to faction balance since I am pretty sure one can find similar examples on the side of the fence (I simply happened to have this stat available atm).
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People should be more careful on what they say to others and especially what the type.
If one rages about something that happened in the game or in the forum he has every right to scream his lungs out in the privacy of his home and vent out.
Going to the keyboard and typing insults to other people he knows nothing about is another story. It a deliberate decision and it is simply a wrong one. |
So the better solution is make USF and unplayable in many situations? Have fun "countering" panthers and OKW p4s with only shermans and 57mm at guns if you pick the wrong doctrine. Why something called a "tank destroyer" destroying other tanks while it can't do anything to infantry (and said other tanks can) is a problem is beyond me. Should we have certain small arms that are only good against elite infantry and other small arms that are only good against lower tier infantry? By the same logic, the fact that BARs perform well against obers and volks alike is clearly a problem, as volks and obers are not the same type of infantry and obers are able to better withstand BARs than volks, making volks obsolete in the face of obers. The fact that lmg42s perform well against both rangers and riflemen alike is clearly a problem, as rangers and riflemen are not the same type of infantry and rangers are able to better withstand lmg42s than riflemen, making riflemen obsolete in the face of rangers.
Again play the mod. If run to such an issues let me know or sent me replay and I will adjust. One can easily add the M10 as a stock unit if this is really an issue. But I think that you will find that the m36 can deal with both the Panther and PzIV. |
The balancing factor for "heavy TDs" is the fact that they can't do anything at all to infantry. There's no need to change their performance because simply getting them is a pretty large tradeoff. They also have pretty much no armor and will get penned by everything (JP4 being the exception) and shot slower and are more expensive than mediums, giving mediums at least a chance against them if you can get close enough.
And that mean the game has deteriorated to I spam infantry with Heavy TDs. I don't really need anything else.
As above pls try the MOD and provide feedback. |
No, you build a load of Jacksons and you expect to win the armour battle against an opponent who's equally invested in generalist tanks. Those Jacksons will do pretty much nothing to infantry, whereas generalists inflict manpower bleed.
The entire point of tank destroyers is they're more cost-efficient at tank combat than medium tanks. Medium tanks are in turn effective against infantry.
You seem to want a rock-paper-scissors game where OST and OKW get to see what the opponent picks first. Were your balance goals ever implemented, the game would devolve into HMG spam into medium tank spam, with a nigh uncounterable heavy tank if your opponent ever outplays your armour. In the event that they do reactively field counters, go back to spamming mediums to render that SU-85 a handicap.
Exactly the same thing would happen if someone was spamming Panthers so this is not allied/axis change, the rules apply to both.
PLS stop theory crafting this a MOD section not a balance section. If you want try the MOD and provide you feedback. |
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