pathing is 90% of the time user error. this is a hard pill to swallow, but the pathing in the game is for the most part predictable, and there are ways to make sure your vehicle does what you want it to do. the most common mistake is backing your vehicle into an uncrushable object (which will force your vehicle to rotate to get out). always use the reverse key and micro manage your vehicles pathing.
I would try changing the reverse into a toggle or button that simply reverse your unit.
If you're really going to sit here and defend the Brumbar with Dozer comparisons then I don't know what to say...
Then pls do not say anything. Silence is gold.
I also have to point out, I have repeatedly said that brumbar should be nerfed (its lethality) and the Dozer/brumbar comparison is not mine but Relics, it is even in the patch notes.
Panzer tactician is the best tank smoke in the game, players such as Hans or Luvnest have all said this repeatidly. It's the ultimate get out of jail card, smoke rounds take time to fire and are not instant.
Panzer tactician and Brumbar are 2 separate issues.
Yes well why don't you give us the vet armour of both units and actual stuff like TTK vs handheld AT or medium tanks? HP means nothing if you are not noting the armour and pen of average tank shooting at them. You posted pen chances in the other thread but you conveniently gloss over them when replying to me, so good job basically proving me right.
Since you accuse of stats manipulation, I would suggest that you stop being lazy and find any stat you want yourself. Cruzz has a very nice page where you can find most stats you need (cheers Cruzz).
But it needs vet 3 and another tank for the silly vacuum perfect unicorn stats you are pushing to say Brumbar is balanced in terms of dozer. Brumbar just needs command P4 and smoke and it's OP on call in, more so at vet 2.
Pointing out the lack of substance to your argument is not a personal remark. Really you argued the point rotation speed>armour in a battering ram unit, not me.
Well you got pretty personal in this post if you ask me.
I don't think anyone here is going to argue that 5% to 15% chance to bounce can be considered good odds, but if you think nitpicking wins arguments, fine by me.
Not counting the Pewma, which is mostly to kill light vehicles, any dedicated AT has very good odds to penetrate the SturmSherman, from max range.
I never argue 5% or 15% is considered good odds, pls don't put words in my mouth.
The list of weapons and chance to penetrate:
1) Ostwind 17.5%
2) Stug -E 22.5%
3) Puma 40%
4) PzIV 55%
5)Panzer faust 70%
6)Panzerschreck 80%
7)Stug -G 85%
8) Pak 40 95%
Now if you want to talk about dedicated AT lets see what happens on the other sides of the fence:
1) FF chance to Penetrate Brumbar 87.5%
2) SU-85 chance to Penetrate Brumbar 92%
3) M36 chance to Penetrate Brumbar 92%
Did you really feel the need to make a new thread about this? Showing some low% chances to bounce at max range kind of proves his point about it bouncing infrequently.
I could reply in the feedback thread but it imo that the tread should not be burden with BS.
The original claim was that only PzIV (and a mauser) could deflect firing on Dozer. That is simply untrue. I provided a list of 8 AT weapons what can bounce on Dozer with Puma bouncing 6 times out 10 for instance.
post 2098
I continue point out that the only 3 Ostheer vehicles do not bounce on Dozer, the Panther, the Tiger and the Elephant and their all at the top of the food chain.
He continue by hand picking 2 dedicated AT weapons out of the 8, (the pack and Stug) and made the claim that a Dozer does not stand a chance against a Pak or Stug.
post 2100
That claim is simply false in the case of Pak, since it is the Pak that does not stand a chance and is an easy prey, under normal conditions.
Imo that is something that should be clarified.
Generally speaking Dozer has around 25% more armor than the average allied medium tank and imo people should be aware of it. Judging from the comments in the feedback thread it seems that some people are not aware of the actual stat of dozer or how they compare to that of Brumbar.
(and since some people seem to waste no time to add fuel into the fire, imo it is better that I have moved this debate away from feedback thread.)
But having to choose between AI and AT is stupid, which is why it's being reworked, the faction no longer has the old strengths that allowed you to mitigate this weakness.
No other faction has this flaw and once it's gone, I hope it never shows up again, in CoH3 or any other Relic game.
If the goal is to removed tech weakness because their are "stupid" lets:
Remove the tech weakness of OKW that have to chose between Leig/heal/AAHT and light vehicles
no other faction has this flaw
Remove the linear teching of UKF
No other faction has this flaw
Remove the linear battle phase teching of Ostheer
No other faction has this flaw
Remove the choice of elite infantry and support weapons form Soviet
No other faction has this flaw
If only you could ever listen to the same advice you give to others so willingy.
Bulldozer Armor:200
Stug G Far Pen: 170
Pak40 Far Pen: 190
It has less armor than a E8, which already is easy prey to StuGs and Paks.
It might bounce one shot, once in awhile, just one shot. Up close it has no chance.
In order to calculate the chance of shot penetrating the armor of vehicle one has to deivde the penetration value of the weapons vs the armor of the vehicle.
For instance:
A stug firing on USF Dozer tank at max range has 170 penetration vs 200 armor:
170/200 = 85% chance to penetrate and 15% to deflect
A Pak firing on USF Dozer tank at max range has 190 penetration vs 200 armor:
190/200 = 95% chance to penetrate and 5% to deflect
A Puma (also include in the list I have provided) firing on USF Dozer tank at max range has 80 penetration vs 200 armor:
80/200 = 40% chance to penetrate and 60% to deflect
That is of course if this shot actually hit either via accuracy or via collision.
Since the majority of Ostheer Weapon have penetration bellow 200 the armor value of Dozer the claim that:
"only thing the Dozer will bounce above a Mauser is a PZ4 round,"
is simply false if not misleading since even dedicated AT weapons like the Pak and stug can actually bounce when firing on Dozer.
In addition the claim that a Pak has no chance vs Dozer is also false, it closer to the other way around.
Unless something changed, only thing the Dozer will bounce above a Mauser is a PZ4 round, everything else is just down to smoke (Which is better for attacking than easy escapes) or the enemy missing.
Is it time to bring the argument that a doctrinal unit should be better than a stock one?
That claim is simply incorrect.
Check the following weapons and you will see that all of them can bounce when firing on Dozer frontally at max range:
1)Panzer faust
2)Panzerschreck
3) Pak 40
4) Ostwind
5) PzIV
6) Stug -E
7) Stug -G
8) Puma
Actually the only Ostheer weapon with guaranteed penetration dozer:
1) Panther
2) Tiger
3) Elephant
PLS try to check stats before making silly claims, especially in a feedback thread. It will save everyone in this forum allot of time.
The squads in of themselves are worth 300 MP. That means USF LT tech costs -100 MP 50 FU at the moment.
That is one part of it, the other is that tech comes at the same time with the unit creating a spike.
The "free" units create another issues of taking up roaster and leave less room for doctrinal units. Some time people just do not want the "free" officer imo the should have that choice.
USF still doesnt have a lot of things that ostheer does. No flamers, no sniper, no rocket arty, nothing larger than medium tanks, 1 combat infantry squad, no t0 hmg, no halftrack. It's got its own advantages and disadvantages already (like pack howie, which really shouldn't be removed as you suggested). Ostheer has plenty of advantages that balance out the fact that riflemen are slightly better than grens (and much better in the late game after double the muni investment).
USF has more powerful infantry thus it does not need an advantage in indirect fire also.
Advantages at other stages of the game like rocket artillery, should be balanced separately.
When it comes to tech Ostheer have linear, buy in bulk technology that many times force to unlock all tech.
USF had the choice of what to unlock and when but come in the price of having to chose between AI and AT. If that weakness is removed their tech should balanced having Ostheer tech in mind.
I didn't want to nerf USF in the first place, actually I have posted multiply times that imo the USF power level should not change but that other factions should be toned down.
On the other hand if USF is redesigned without to have no disadvantage in tech, imo it should have a tech tree that is balanced around Ostheer tech tree.
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