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Thread: Penals have the worst mainline infantry target size31 Aug 2022, 15:52 PM Jump back to quoted post31 Aug 2022, 14:37 PMOrangePest They cost more than conscripts, they require a specific tech. AND on top of that then require and additional upgrade to even get close to competeing with the worst mainline in the game (volks), and then to make matters even worse, its the slowest opening in the game. its perfectably acceptable for a unit with that high of an entry barrier to scale well. And then none will use the Conscripts so the conscripts will "need" another buff and power creep circle will continue. As you said in the original post the problem is the T1 and not Penals, they have been buffed in many occasions and that created more problem than it solved. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Penals have the worst mainline infantry target size31 Aug 2022, 13:58 PM Jump back to quoted post31 Aug 2022, 13:07 PMOrangePest ...and penals don't scale nearly as well as cons. I agree with most of the post, but I have to point out that this the way of thinking that lead to power creep. People complaint that conscript do not scale well compared to Penal so conscripts got buffed and now people its the other way round... One should simply redesign things with: either create different play styles with Penal as cheap SMG cannon fodder units and conscripts as defensive infatry or Replace Penal with cheap AT infatry in T1 and make Penal a doctrinal unit available to NKVD armies so that there 3 types of armies, Guards/shocks/NKVD. In: COH2 Balance
Thread: supply truck ZIS 6 from Lend-Lease28 Aug 2022, 13:08 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2022, 17:06 PMrumartinez89 I believe you are right, for some reason I though it was 3 POP but I can't remember if I am confusing 221/223 with the others. The 76MM is only 120, fuel same or similar to most other MEDs in the game. No one needs it for those units so why would they need it for the 76MM. The KV-8 is 145 Fuel I believe, again not much more than a regular tank despite it having heavy armor. The expended MP is better served building a cache for the team so the entire team can get tanks out a bit faster. The KV-2 is the same price Fuel wise as the other Heavies and locked behind CP. In most high level 1v1s once most of your army is built fuel usually isn't the limiting factor, MP is. In all game modes, if you go with a double AT gun stall fuel is not a concern in the slightest. I simply have to disagree with your analysis. When it comes to soviet extra can be used for an early t-70 or an early T4 both of which can reduce MP drain. When it comes to 76mm the unit becomes powerful when in numbers that can fight even enemy heavy armor so extra fuel is helpful. KV-8 being an AI vehicle add a heavy toll on fuel so again extra fuel is useful. KV-2 has a high fuel cost and depending of game mode extra fuel can allow the pretense of other vehicles. Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2022, 17:06 PMrumartinez89 1 truck is not really a problem, its that most players who use them abuse them and make 3 or 4. I posted a game recently where both teams had players that abused the hell out of it and by late game both players were MP starved. At work, so I can't rewatch it to check if they take POP or not. EDIT: To clarify my stance, I think for Soviets in particular with Cons the unit itself works great as MP usually isn't a problem even though fuel is really in short supply. In team games, I think it is a bit greedy as it doesn't help the whole team. For OST/OKW, the MP can be a bit wasteful depending on how the game is going. Any wipes to Vetted Grens will cause massive MP bleed until they can get their Vet back(same with Obers). Therefore it will delay the expensive tank anyways as you are now MP starved instead of fuel starved. In 1vs1 is rather difficult to have more than one truck, in team-games it is more efficient to build cashes first before multiple tracks. In sort Soviet supply truck can be helpful for the faction. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Penals have the worst mainline infantry target size28 Aug 2022, 12:31 PM Jump back to quoted post28 Aug 2022, 11:37 AMrumartinez89 Why are you focusing so much on the action of sprint and not the opportunity it provides? .... I am not, I am simply responding to the claim that: Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2022, 16:53 PMrumartinez89 ... At high vet they even get sprint which means a late retreat is most likely a death due to the excellent moving DPS... There is simply no advantage having "excellent moving DPS" and sprint. The unit will either move (sprint) and not fire (so the moving DPS play not part) or be stationary and fire (without the moving multiplier applying). Can we agree on this and simply move on? In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Penals have the worst mainline infantry target size27 Aug 2022, 23:27 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2022, 18:33 PMrumartinez89 While Sprint disable weapon, it get you into position a lot quicker to try and take those higher damage shots vs trying to fight at max range. Also during late game there is much more going on which means a quick sprint into position can be quite punishing in regards to AI and AT. Personally, I find G43 across both factions as harder to deal with since you can keep the squad run'n and gun'n to try and get the sniper. Whereas LMG Grens, PG and Volks aren't to good at the chase. I agree with your first statement somewhat. Again, a blob pushing forward will quickly force a Sniper retreat which can heavily reduce the snipers performance. But, like you said Sprint is fairly late game so one would hope that by that point your sniper has paid itself off. EDIT: expanded first point Point is there is no synergy between sprint and high moving accuracy. When it comes to sprint the only current issue is the "passive sprint" that is available to USF officers (and obers vet 5 if I remember correctly) In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Penals have the worst mainline infantry target size27 Aug 2022, 17:15 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2022, 16:53 PMrumartinez89 According to serelia they do similar damage at max range and both units have similar target size. I also tend to use snipers as you suggested but that falls off once recon packages and flares come online. As they are 6 man squads with concentrated DPS they can take the model drops and push towards the sniper for a retreat. At high vet they even get sprint which means a late retreat is most likely a death due to the excellent moving DPS. As others have said it requires a lot more work to counter than to use. I personally find it easier to skip the car, go 3 Penals into Guards/Airborne LMG and punish them that way. Just a side note Penals DPS and target size are wrong on serelia. They didn’t update it after march 2021. Also according to Hannibal the PF close range DPS is a bit high don’t know if that applies to long range. 1) Sprint comes at vet 5 which usually is very late in the game, if a sniper has survived that long it has probably paid off the investment 2) Sprint disables weapon the is no synergy with the "excellent moving DPS" In: COH2 Balance
Thread: supply truck ZIS 6 from Lend-Lease27 Aug 2022, 16:45 PM Jump back to quoted post27 Aug 2022, 16:30 PMrumartinez89 I truly hate these units in team games. I can’t remember if keep capture point connected for the whole team or owner when they are cut off. Aside from that they only benefit the owner and take up pop cap. So it is negatively affecting your whole team unless your floating MP or part of an arranged team with a specific goal in mind. Edit: For Soviets it doesn’t really make sense as most of their vehicles are cheap fuel wise anyways. I understand for OST T4 or OKW heavies but Soviets seem like a waste. As far as I can remember trucks do not take up pop only 223 does. As for soviet they come with 76mm and KV-8/KV-2 that are not that "cheap fuel wise". In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: USF Abilities Questions26 Aug 2022, 22:03 PM Jump back to quoted post26 Aug 2022, 20:14 PMgunther09 are these para bonuses for LT and Capt still real? Name: "On Me!" Duration: 8 Seconds Cost: Free Designated squad will retreat to the Captain and lose suppression. The targeted infantry unit will have: +20% accuracy. -20% received accuracy. Name: "Tactical Assault" Duration: 10 Seconds Cost: 20 Munitions +150% burst length. +50% accuracy. +50% received accuracy. Squad moves at reduced speed. Lasts on retreat. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: Penals have the worst mainline infantry target size26 Aug 2022, 16:44 PM Jump back to quoted post26 Aug 2022, 16:19 PMHannibal We are describing a different thing... Imo it is the same thing. DPS drop off from casualties in relationship to model count. The case of PF is simply a subcategory since it affects mostly the moving DPS. (same can be said for other units like PPsh conscripts, assault guards,..) One could try to to make the upgrade provide 6 G43s and adjust DPS of the weapon accordingly to smooth out the DPS drop off. (edited) In: COH2 Balance
Thread: Penals have the worst mainline infantry target size26 Aug 2022, 15:03 PM Jump back to quoted post26 Aug 2022, 14:56 PMrumartinez89 I agree that both are badly designed. In regards to the modifiers I am talking about how each individually impacts DPS. ACC seems to be the most important but how much more important. Using Penals, as the thread is about Penals, how would a VET 2 Penal with 30% ACC/20% cooldown compare to a Commissar buffed Penal Vet0 with 20% ACC/50% cooldown? How would a Vet3 Penal compare to Vet0 Penal with mother Russia? What impact does weapon cooldown have on the different weapon profiles/flamethrower? Having a quick way to check changes would allow for more tactical planning during pushes or allow for better defensive planning. ... down load COH2 tools, extract weapon file, and convert to XLS. Then you can change the value you want manually. In: COH2 Balance