even funnier when a soviet adds a doucheka into the mix.
Good luck accomplishing anything vs a good Soviet player with a dooshka on the wrong map. Who am I kidding its every map. If it's open you're screwed, if it's full of buildings you're screwed 
They definitely need LEIG smoke and a total rehaul. yet again
There is already a suggestion by miragefla that more or less addresses the topic:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/54949/let-s-talk-isg-performance |
I do agree that the suppression was the worst part, but the last thing that this game needs is better indirect.
If you really think that the LeIG is underperforming, please explain why Barton buys two of them.
He buys 2 of them because it is the only option for OKW to counter that play style, but its still pretty bad. miragefla already explained that initially. |
I watched most of the video. Barton is floating 260 fuel by the 15 minute mark. Is that what you consider locked from resources? Also, Barton has bought 2 isg's. Do top notch players normally buy multiple under-performing units? His first LeIG was averaging about 2 kills/minute. That's a shitload of bleed for the other player. Even without watching the rest of the video, I'm pretty sure that I know how it will turn out.
As for your what-if scenario, you can watch Barton play VonIvan on Angoville. The LeIG's were even better there and that was against VonIvan, who is also rumored to be a top notch player.
230 fuel and nothing else invested than healing, no MP available to, try to be honest. By the time he manages to set up schwer he's facing T70, SU76 and T34/85 with just raketens to fend off. And Zartok still at 500 VPs.
A good player will still buy isgs against this playstyle because there are no other viable options for OKW. That doesn't mean it's good. 2 kills per minute (while another lie) non stop firing at close range and microed all the time to pick targets? Any other idf unit in the game performs better in the same situation.
Ohh, another alleged game with isgs against maxim spam? Just because a better player still has a slight chance at winning doesn't mean anything. Did you read and understand the original post? |
...Little? The main thing would be timing, as the ISGs are timed around their current functionality. But that's not that big an issue though.
I don't disagree that both ISGs could use some adjustments to make them function better in their roles. Either by converting them towards the mortar end of the spectrum like miragefla more or less is suggesting, or to push them in the opposite direction, away from autofiring and more like an artillery piece with stronger barrages.
I'm not sure if you're trying to provoke an argument or what, but what are you getting at? I'm not trying to dump on anyone's opinions here, just stating my own opinions more or less in support of this discussion.
Not trying to provoke, sry. I just don't get the point. The initial post is pretty clear on improving barrage to make it more micro intensive as opposed to afk, right? Currently. if I want to use it successfully I have to micro it quite abt already I think, unless it's a very samll 1v1 map with an unaware opponent. I don't think it'll be much of a difference just more micro => more efficient is fair enough. If you play a mortar inattentive (see posted replay) it will be useless as well. From what I I understand it is just an attempt at getting it closer to any of the already existing mortars and giving some badly needed functionality to it without badly breaking anything in terms of ballance. |
I don't disagree with smoke for either ISG. I think the WFA armies could use it on their ISGs most definitely.
But then again, I find mortars with smoke work out just fine too. 
The awkwardness comes either in their timing or their performance. They aren't mortars, but they aren't artillery like the LeFH or any of the rocket artillery units. Trying to place them somewhere in that middleground is the awkward part.
I personally would find ISGs performing as mobile artillery pieces, instead of glorified mortar teams with a different model, to work better. But my point is that they're awkward trying to be both, but acting as neither.
And what's the significant difference between a regular mortar (with smoke) and the isg changes that miragefla is suggestig? |
Both the pak howie and lieg don't fit well into this franchise's gameplay.
Artillery (and indirect fire) in general can be particularly limiting in gameplay choices. Their use and availability has to be carefully timed to not destroy the rest of the game which involves cover, suppression, garrisons, and maneuvering around shot blockers.
Given that the ISGs were apparently designed to be THE crewed indirect fire of WFA since they both lacked mortars until just recently, I think they're going to be perpetually awkward units.
I try and compare both ISGs to the nebelwerfer or landmattress. The role and function that the latter units provide fits better with what players seek to use.
Imagine if the land mattress or nebelwerfer just shot single rockets constantly. It'd be annoying and awkward to deal with.
If both ISGs were able to send off impressive barrages instead of autofiring it might help the situation. But that's more of an overhaul than anything. However, considering that ISGs have been botched and rebotched since they were released, this isn't too far out of the question.
What's awkward about just having a standard average performing idf unit with smoke ability? Without Speaking in Tongues I mean. |
Just watch the first 20 mins of this this and tell me what barton (top notch player) could have done with those isgs on a larger map with more, or more durable garrisons like semosky or arnheim checkpoint or Angoville or whatever without smoke against an experienced maxim spammer. This map is already pretty tiny, hence isg favoring. And still with excellently microing 2 isgs he's more or less locked from resources for 20 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soSx3yoDckE |
Original thing was something like: Flak Truck or FlakHT + ISG(s) being OP and non counterable by allies?
And as a bonus i liked to ask Ululu what he meant as saying p4 is "bullshit" because i could not understand why its "bullshit" unit like AA emplacement and halftrack. Because I in my low intellect would like to learn and understand.
Well... assuming he means the schweres Panzer heaquarters protecting a relatively close range isg he's got a point, but it's not like that doesn't bares it's own risks either. Plenty of allied artillery/ At still counters that combination as well. The thing is that OKW has no viable options to deal with early game entrenched opponents, the isg was supposed to handle that and in it's current state really doesn't, am I wrong? (dee original post) |
Just give the ISG an incendiary shot ability that allows the ISG to deal with garrisons and emplacements but fires only one shot like the ostheer mortar half track.
Why so exotic? What's wrong with smoke and some bits of damage like every other faction has? Otherwise, sure, fire will work, too maybe. |
i like curreny isg. rarely found it useless in gamemodes i play. its range makes it unique. maybe smoke can be added.
I like that, make it smoke and a tiny bit more damage against buildings and it's fine. No need to get another OP artillery piece for any faction again, just a way to deal with garrisoned MGs will do it for me. BTW. any other way would be fine as well, like Flak HT or Luchs dealing damage to buildings/ garrisoned units would do the trick as well. |
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