No one uses the smoke because its terrible. Throw range of a smoke grenade, but the delay of an artillery barrage. By the time it arrives its too late, and you can't cast it from far enough away to setup a useful blind on an MG.
I like the smoke quite a lot actually, just because you don't have to rely on anything external to use it. I think in teamgames it becomes a lot more complicated then "just smoke lol".
In team games they can just layer their defenses. Layering their defenses means far more pushes towards their base. Pushes towards their base means they more often then not have the advantage due to pre-built cover or enemy forces/more mgs.
Then "going even" with using muni smoke doesn't help. Your opponent is going to be upgrading their guns with the munis they aren't spending so that they won't even need the MG to beat you. I've experimented with going hyper aggression in 2v2+ with USF using grenades and smoke and it rarely works out simply because I'd have no munitions for critical gun upgrades.
I had experimented with mortar/mortar halftrack smoke and questions came to mind like "Why can it miss?" and "Man that takes a while to land". You'd have to team up with someone too because as USF if they blob and you bought a mortar you're down 1 fighting squad in the meantime. |
I'm not sure how the latter part dismisses comparisons to CoH1.
CoH's strategic upgrades allowed for multiple distinct playstyles in the game that didn't necessarily guarantee a win for either side at some point in the game, though perhaps one might have an advantage. USF had the option of fielding absurd amounts of infantry late game, or absurd amounts of armor, or an absurd amount of combined arms units.
Wehr could field vet 3 knights cross and other infantry, or push for one of the tiger varients, or even rely on carefully placed 88mms to bleed your opponents of VPs.
CoH2 has very little variation along these lines, with most of the strategic choices boiling down to little more than choosing 3x infantry, or 4x infantry. Heavies or spam mediums.
All match-ups boil down to allies having ultimate infantry supremacy, and axis having ultimate vehicle supremacy in the late game. There's no war machine to give USF armor supremacy, and there's no vet 3 KCH to give axis infantry supremacy.
I agree with you on most things, I mean companies in coh1 play a far larger role then coh2s commanders for starters.
My point was that they have entirely different philosophies. That getting an ober doesn't equate to getting a Gren in Coh1 because of the implication. You can in CoH1 just abandon volks because at a certain point your strategy had called for it and your Grens are only going to start snowballing. Wheras in CoH2 the ober has to work his way up and can get wiped in an instant setting you back immensely. You can't toss volks in coh2 to the side because of as you said "4x infantry" is just the core standard of things so you can't get by with a low volks build. |
It's quite perplexing how brits have such low winrates. Of course, the pick rate is low. You could sooner expect to get hit in the ballsack with a flail, swung from a headless chicken, then to see a brit in game... but still, low winrates
It's more like their core design doesn't work if they aren't overpowered. A mortar pit that fires twice as fast as a regular mortar! Then, you can add an engie squad to fire even faster!.....until it gets nerfed. Now you have a stationary mortar waiting to get killed. A sniper that could snare vehicles and damage tanks? That's insane!....until it gets nerfed into the ground because obviously. Am I saying the above is balanced? No not at all.
But doing changes like that ignores that the faction was strictly designed with weird stuff in mind (same with usf) so now you get Frankenstein factions with contradictions/holes/wasted units. Some factions were designed in a linear way, and trying to make curves in that gets you weird Digital signals, not Analog signals. |
No, there was like a 3 month timed window before release of OKW / AEF where you could play Soviet lategame tanks on eye level with Ostheer lategame tanks, sadly the addition of OKW / AEF screwed it totally.
Originally, it felt like Ostheer vs Soviets could be close at all stages of the game. IS-2 or the ISU being incredibly dangerous vs a Tiger or Elephant. They seemed to push this concept away as USF was "hyper early game" and okw was "hyper late game" designed which probably bled to the other factions.
Ignoring balance, UKF was originally designed too to compete with late game. |
One thing is map design and ressource inflation just in bigger game modes which gives Axis an advantage in comparison to 1vs1.
This is the biggest one. An MG42 is manageable in lower game modes. However the way the maps are designed in higher team modes mixed with the amount of players make the weapon insane. Most 4v4 maps tend to just turn into choke points. As USF or UKF good luck countering it with the indirect fire you are given.
That and germans are just designed to have a better late game, that's how it goes. If you can't stop a faction designed for late game from getting there, it's sort of a predictable result.
I don't think they even take team game context in consideration when they do the balance patches. Even though 90% of coh players are team game players(2s,3s,4s).
This has always been an issue in Relic games. DoW2 the most popular game modes were 2v2+, yet the game was entirely balanced around 1v1. To be real 1v1 just plays dramatically different from 2v2+ they feel like you're playing a different game.
If all factions had access to a T4(sort of like king tiger tier) that all factions could achieve, that would really only ever be felt in 2v2+ since 1v1 barely ever gets it that far if the game is close. Though that's just not how it's been designed. To fully fix 3v3/4v4 the maps just need drastic reworks....or you just release the game super busted, everyone's viable now in the chaos. |
Didn't read anything past the 1st page so I apologize if this has been discussed.
Part of the strength of volks is also their weaknesses- they hit their full potential after the first truck is placed. They get STGs, lava nade and their snare, comparing to cons is a bit off considering that between first truck placed and soviet t4 volks are generating value against stock conscripts. Cons superior late game performance comes in part at the price of not having it until the late game.
Volks need something but that something is a vet rework. Con upgrade has nothing to do with it.
You brought up a very good point about "timings". If Volks got better at what point would cons or other squads actually not be on the backfoot? People have suggested late game RA buffs or MP costs which would probably satisfy both camps since they just become a useful screening unit that has a useful toolset.
On the subject of Obers and throwing volks away, you'd figure that having a flame and at nade would be reason enough to keep some of them around. That and screening for your important units. The issue with getting obers out is the same issue most elite infantry have is that they are too far away and you can't afford to put off building and you can't afford to hoard manpower until they are allowed to be fielded.
CoH1 vs CoH2 comparisons don't exactly work because coh1 was designed around allies win early axis win late. Allies fought for veterency axis bought their veterency. So late game you would have terminator Grens that even if wiped did nothing to dmg the axis player because they were meant to win at that point. In this case we sort of have role reversal where Volks will be highly vetted before obers come out and obers have to fight for it. Which obers would get help vetting up if the volks were meatshields for the obers to shoot at the opponents vetted squads.
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 < --------- This british bugger is earning the kings shillings from a trench. And basically? You're retarded, click here to find out how! |
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It's ok to fall back early if the engagement isn't going to work out for you. A lot of people seem to have a mindset that they should continue a firefight till the bitter end even if your squad had no chance of winning 1v1. I say this because if three engagements are going on in the map at different points, it helps to just call it on the fight that wasn't going to win anyway. Otherwise you may hyper focus on one fight and bam, squad lost elsewhere.
Late game especially in team games you'll eventually lose squads to big tanks. Most of the time a full health squad can take 1 Brumbar equivalent shot and not get wiped. The second one will wipe you so if you have a half health squad know that you are gambling with them until they are healed. The better the tank, the better chances they have of wiping your half health squad. A Panzer 4 can't wipe as well as a Brumbar, but that's just risk. Hiding with heavy cover towards a tank can save you tremendously and eliminate the risk of a wipe. However if your side is exposed its a free wipe.
What faction do you play? You're never too old to learn/master something, knowledge and good play take you farther then clicking fast. |
Because it infatry support Tank for infatry support commander and Easy8 fits elite armor better
If I wanted to support my infantry, I'd prefer something that could pose a threat to a tank that shows up (The E8). I just think the smoke launchers from that thing need to deploy faster. Maybe it's just me but it sometimes feels like they don't deploy at all sometimes or take 8 seconds to start deploying. Sometimes I swear it's instant. The comet's smoke launch attack is the best of both worlds. |
Originally you could call in Vet1 Riflemen for 300 MP. This was a crucial option since they came with AT grenade right from the start and reached other Vet-levels faster. In these days the company somehow lived up to its name. Maybe you should get M19A19A6 or Thompsons upgrade for Riflemen (balanced around CP unlock of course) instead of Flamer for REs.
But even more important is the role of the E8 in the company. Its just not interesting enough to choose it over M4A3/M36 combo and forgo Ranger+Calliope/Priest/Paras or Ranger+Pershing by doing so. Somehow it needs a special unique ability, because slight stat changes won't do it on their own. I'm not very creative atm. Maybe something like a WP shot, a tracking ability, some kind of a skill shot or HVAP?
I think ideally it should be a mix of the M4A3/M36 combo. However it feels really bad to use against infantry so I find myself just preferring the M4A3 if I wanted something to kill infantry with. I would enjoy the smoke shots the comet gets and WP over the crap tacular smoke launchers. It should thematically help riflemen and helping them get in feels like it serves that purpose.
Plus upgrading your echelons to flamers locks out smoke grenades. I understand why they did that, that just feels bad. |
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