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Thread: DBP Commander Revamp brainstorming11 Nov 2017, 14:13 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Nov 2017, 13:09 PMSturmmaus Is it possible to take some abilities from OST to OKW and vice versa? Abilities that don't require vehicles (due to skins) or voicelines should be ok. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: December Balance Preview11 Nov 2017, 14:11 PM Jump back to quoted post11 Nov 2017, 10:40 AMA_E Top level players can still put them on the side of maps on strat points, and wait a few seconds before clicking it, no one will see the timer. put them on buildings (near doors ways), and 3 seconds won't mean shit Activating the demo makes it visible, and there's a "Grenade" warning. Somehow people don't get completely wrecked by 1s commando gammon bombs. If the timer is too short, we'll increase it. Jump back to quoted post11 Nov 2017, 10:40 AMA_E put them on retreat paths and just time the three seconds out. put them where support weapons are likely to set up, and that's one dead support weapon. That's fair game. It's a lot more difficult to predict this than "set demo at victory point" In: Lobby
Thread: Why DBP is destined not to work10 Nov 2017, 16:32 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 16:30 PMVipper while some units are hit with x3 to x5 nerfs/buffs. That is simply too ambitious. Stop treating changes as the number of lines on the paper. This doesn't work here; and this doesn't work like that in real life either. Just go out and play the mod. I want you to provide us with a list of units that you believe we have over-touched with changes that are far too detouched by no-brainer changes. I want you to use your experience from trying the mod, and point us out to that list. In: Lobby
Thread: Why DBP is destined not to work10 Nov 2017, 16:02 PM The vast majority of the changes in the game are small fine-tuning changes to long-standing well-understood issues (e.g., OST T3/T4 changes and Soviet T2 changes). Then, there is a vast number of small no-brainer changes. Most of these changes have had the benefit of being tested in FBP (and reintroduced as lighter versions of themselves), or tested in a large number of balance mods, and seemed to work. Conscripts, while an important issue have received conservative changes, as you've already seen both theoretically (and also, hopefully) while testing them out yourself. Volksgrenadiers, OKW Vet4/5, Penals, Lend-lease meta, Heavy TD and heavy artillery are also well understood and urgent issues that needed resolution. For every faction, we are taking a calculated risk and are attempting to define new roles for units that really need them. Those calculated risks currently are: - Jackson - USF Smoke change (which is a prerequisite for the Jackson) - Ostwind (only because of the range) - OKW timing with respect to their vehicle fuel prices Everything else has been meticulously modified in predictable ways. For most of the changes, this won't really change the intended raw performance of the unit, but it will require you to rethink how much micro you are willing to invest on said units (e.g., Firefly and Panther moving accuracy pop to mind). Are we seriously going to bemoan the fact that 20-or so units have had their popcap adjusted to match their performance? Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 15:45 PMVipper I have been going thru the newest versions of DBP and imo is becoming more and more destined to create more problems than it solves. Can you please provide a list of all the changes you consider to be too profound? Instead of spending time trying to count the number of lines on the changelog, why not spend sometime testing the changes and see for yourself how many of these changes are truly as gamechanging as you make them out to be. This is a nearly 5-year old game, and one of the thorns in this game has been Commander Design. This is, finally, the coming of the Commander Rework patch. However, we can't give the game meaningful commanders, however, unless the baseline factions have been adjusted in a way that their synergy makes sense throughout the duration of the game. Why bother revamping infantry-based doctrines if they are going to get chewed apart by Luchs in the early game or bled by heavy TDs, lavanades and Vet5 in the lategame? Why bother revamping non-Tiger doctrines if OST teching is so expensive that you always need a Tiger? How are you going to evaluate the performance of those changes if the baseline is so skewed? In: Lobby
Thread: December Balance Preview10 Nov 2017, 15:29 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 15:14 PMblvckdream What about making the Soviet mortar deal more DMG instead of giving it more "utility"? By the way a unit in very serious need of a buff, the IS-2, is getting nothing. Why is that? In 95% of games vs. Soviets I dont see the IS-2 and if it is used it is super ineffective and generally just a waste of ressources. Please buff IS-2, just as the mortar it is (almost) never used because it just sucks too much. We can't fix everything at the same time. For each faction we have to prioritise what are the important aspects that ruin synergy and cause repetition. For Soviets this was Conscripts, T2 and, with commander revamp, their elite infantry callins. For OST, this was their teching and their lacklustre T3 non-Stug options. For OKW, that was their non-sensical economy that is promoting infantry blobbing, and the fact that many units significantly outperform other similar-cost units. For USF, that was their anti-tank late-game, and the fact that their entire metagame is concentrated around one squad type (Riflemen). As for Brits, I don't think we've really touched them yet. Therefore, if we are allowed more scope-credit, it should go there. In: Lobby
Thread: DBP Commander Revamp brainstorming10 Nov 2017, 15:23 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 13:17 PMAngrade (Ægion) USF: Recon Support American sniper would make this the CoH1-throwback doctrine (US Sniper, greyhound etc). While this would be very fun to try, I fear that given that snipers are extremely powerful, there would be too little time to evaluate long-term consequences. Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 13:17 PMAngrade (Ægion) Mechanized Company MortarHT is extremely thematic for the doctrine. Hopefully, as you point out, with withdraw and refit the doctrine will finally find some synergy. Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 13:17 PMAngrade (Ægion) -Guards I never liked how all range effective Guards are. I would make their PTRS and DP-28s separate and independent upgrades. Making them not come with PTRS's is actually a large buff to their anti infantry damage. With the squad not having PTRS and Button together, this could make a much needed price decrease for Button. This could make Combined Arms Army's AT gun ambush plus button a powerful combo. Additionally to improve vehicle damage a third PTRS for their upgrade could make it into more of a AT role. However a slight nerf of moving accuracy from .75 to .5 would be warranted as well. We kind of tried specialist guards in Revamp. While they did the job, they felt boring. Specialized infantry works for WFA, since you can get your baseline infantry from minute 0. Guards are forced to be generalist units, given that you already have your backbone out by 2CP. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: December Balance Preview10 Nov 2017, 12:59 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 12:50 PMblvckdream yeah it´s sad...the soviet mortar needs a performance buff badly. not sure why this is not possible. Firing in FoW hurts accuracy by a lot. Having flares always accessible means that you have an advantage over other mortars since: - You know where to shoot at - You are more accurate vs them than they are vs you Having flares also means that you know which spots are currently covered by MGs. In: Lobby
Thread: DBP USF thread10 Nov 2017, 12:40 PM Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 10:25 AMzarok47 Not even with Target Table's? I'm so looking forward to going through every single AT-capable weapon in the game and handpicking damage values. /s In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: DBP Commander Revamp brainstorming10 Nov 2017, 11:52 AM Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 10:09 AMSiphon X. To clarify: Do changes to commander abilities of the chosen group carry over to other commanders with the same abilities or would the change be limited to the commanders listed? Same commander abilities affect other commanders too. Let's say that Guards Combined Arms commander was "strategically" chosen for that purpose. Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 10:10 AMkitekaze How about something like triangulation equipment in coh1? Intelligence is extremely important for commando so I think a camouflage equipment that can reveal unit on mini-map within an area is welcome. Smaller abilities we could collapse to existing ones. E.g., commando vet1 could allow them to plant such beacons. What I'm asking for is if there is something fun that could be game-changing for a doctrine. Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 10:19 AMZaneyZap Here is one I have thought of for (SOVIET) Tank Hunter Tactics. Change the salvage kits from an upgrade to an ability like OKW's salvage ability. The reason why I don't like the current way is that its a rather expensive upgrade and it denies other upgrades such as the flamethrower and mine sweeper. Another suggestion would be the PTRS for cons. Lower the CPs required from 3 to 2. Because guards comes at 2 CPs with PTRS rifles. Last suggestion is to make the at-nade ability from the commander homing (possible make them always penetrate). Currently the nades can be very powerful if they hit and penetrate. However for them to hit their intended target the target has to either stand still or move towards the conscripts. The argument against making them homing would be the small at mines that comes with the commander, as they stun any vehicles. Another argument could be that it would make them too powerful. Arguments for making them homing would be like I mentioned, only when the target is standing still or moving towards the conscripts will it hit. The nades are very likely to miss even if the vehicle is reversing away from the conscripts with a broken engine. using UURRAAR to get close/behind tanks will likely result in lost models and the opponent will order the tank to reverse away. One might be able to surprise a tank by flanking it and using URA to get close (and hoping the enemy doesn't pay attention) But all in all, I think homing at-nades are worth a test In light of Conscript buffs, we probably want to avoid making this commander into a "Spam Conscripts and kill everything". Ideally, there should be a mix of units and abilities involved to reach that conclusion. Smaller existing abilities, we know how to rebalance. What we're asking for specifically are for abilities we should add, or abilities we should completely redo (e.g., Smoke Raid) Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 11:01 AMLimaOscarMike that quite hard though the commander already fulfill with utillity ability. but what if replace mortar cover with standfast from Royal Engineer Regiment and instead Commando Regiment replace standfast with Passive ability like "Stay frosty" (Conscript hit the dirt) that allow both Commando and Infantry section to use hit the dirt but this time with hold fire and provide with ambush bonus once engage Or call in valentine with gilder which need to perform better somehow Now that could be interesting. Commando Doctrine should definitely fulfill the sneakiness aspect of Brits. Smoke raid kind of does similar things, though. Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 11:31 AMEsxile USF Mechanized Commander - WC51 a bit more health or front armor or reduce its price (200mp) (10fu) and pop (7). And improve its pathing, 3/2 times I have it destroyed is because of its stupid pathing. - Withdraw and refit is fine - Replace the M3 half-track with the M5 and remove the AE from the load. - Reco swipe is fine - 155mm arty barrage is fine The doctrine completely sucks in the late-game. Why would you ever pick this doctrine over the Calliope doctrine? I don't think WC51 is enough to carry the doctrine. In: COH2 Gameplay
Thread: DBP Commander Revamp brainstorming10 Nov 2017, 09:56 AM Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2017, 09:54 AMLimaOscarMike could we split mortar cover from air supremacy ? mortar cover are great if wasn't outshadow by air supremacy If you ask me it's the other way around. I would say that mortar cover is an extremely underrated ability. Even if you split them, though, that leaves you with one slot open; in that case what would the Commando Doctrine need that fits the theme? In: COH2 Gameplay