Profile of Culainn

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the value of AoE weapon is to wipe out infantry blob regardless of them being cores or elites infantry.

Veterans DO know how to dodge and evade incoming fire but to survive a 105mm shell exploding within 2 meters one can only pray that he is from Krypton.

Blast Radius in this game is at least 5 times smaller than it in real world, so I think it's kind of acceptable

If you think the blast radii are truncated, think of the weapon ranges. In real life the Sturmtiger had an effective firing range of 6 kilometers!

Joseph

It is my belief that the main issue with 'elite' infantry of all stripes, but most readily apparent with 4 man squads such as Grenadiers, PGs, and Obers, is their vulnerability to explosive damage (AoE).

In September 2015 there was a major change in how AoE damage was dealt. Instead of doing an accuracy roll, AoE damage was made to automatically hit, which makes judging and managing units dealing AoE damage much easier.

Unfortunately, a big part of 'elite' infantry is their received accuracy modifier (implemented through target size), which makes them harder to hit, and I believe this received accuracy modifier also applied to AoE damage prior to the September 2015 patch. After the 'always hits' change to AoE damage 'elite' infantry are now as vulnerable as regulars to AoE damage because their received accuracy modifier no longer has an reductive effect on AoE damage. They do retain their received accuracy (target size) advantages against small arms.

The effects are most obvious on 4 man units, which are much more likely to be wiped in 1 shot by AoE damage being smaller in number and closer spaced. Giving rise to the general impression Obers, Grens, and PGs are not as strong in use as they should be according to their stats.

I have not done the math on how damage is calculated, so I could be wrong. However if I am right, an easy fix would be to simply multiply AoE damage taken by infantry by their received accuracy (target size) modifier, which would restore some AoE damage resistance for 'elite' infantry, perhaps even alleviating the insta-wipe problems of 4-man units.

Joseph

It is my belief that the main problem with 'elite' infantry of all stripes, but most readily apparent with Grenadiers, PGs, and Obers, is their vulnerability to explosive damage.

IIRC, a change was made last year to how explosive damage was dealt. Instead of doing an accuracy roll, the explosive damage was made to automatically hit, which makes judging and managing units dealing this damage easier.

Unfortunately, a big part of 'elite' infantry is their received accuracy modifier (implemented through target size), which makes them much harder to hit, and I believe this received accuracy modifier (target size) also applied to explosive damage prior to the change. After the change to explosive damage, now that there is no accuracy roll as the damage is always applied, 'elite' infantry are as vulnerable as regulars to explosive damage, although to small arms they retain their received accuracy (target size) advantages.

The effects are most obvious on 4 man units, which are much more likely to be wiped in 1 shot by explosive damage. Hence the impression Obers, Grens, and PGs are not as strong in use as they should be according to their stats.

I have not done the math on how damage is calculated, just going off of my memory of previous patches, so I could be wrong. However if I am right, an easy fix would be to simply multiply explosive damage received by the received accuracy (target_size) multiplier of infantry, which would reduce explosive damage effectiveness against 'elite' infantry, perhaps even alleviating the grenade insta-wipe problem of 4-man units.

Joseph

You'd pay 10 more munitions to lose 40% of your squad's AI power to get a 61% chance of doing 100 damage and 37% chance of doing 160 damage against a PIV at max range (assuming it hits) instead of saving 10 munitions and 20% AI power to get an 88% chance of doing 120 damage and a 12% chance of 30 damage (assuming it hits)?

Well, you really shouldn't.

I don't feel one loses 40% of the squad's AI power, as the zooks are quite capable of instapopping infantry models in many situations, such as when the target squad is standing in front of a shotblocker. Often I find the zooks can be more effective than the m1 garand against infantry as it can take time to pop an infantry model with the rifles, but if a zook gets lucky at the beginning the enemy squad is instantly down 25% firepower for the whole fight.

Even still though, what is the expected damage in your armor scenario? Just going by your own numbers the expected damage is still higher for the zooks than a shreck, and with two chances to hit instead of one the average damage output will be more consistent, making the Rifle squad easier to use as its effectiveness will be easier to predict. And what happens to the numbers when one isn't at max range?

Joseph

No nerf needed. I use volks a lot but lately I have been playing USF and blobing like hell because why not? I equip my rifleman blob with zooks and bars and they own opponents from the start to finish. If volks are nerfed then allies should be nerfed too. But as usual this thread will die a slow and painful death like other 1000+ thread on volks and allies infantry.

Riflemen are the most OP infantry in the game at the moment. Now that vet works properly they should have their buffs from last year reverted, including the zook accuracy.

Joseph