Are grenadiers worth their 30 MP reinforce cost?

It is my belief that the main problem with 'elite' infantry of all stripes, but most readily apparent with Grenadiers, PGs, and Obers, is their vulnerability to explosive damage.

IIRC, a change was made last year to how explosive damage was dealt. Instead of doing an accuracy roll, the explosive damage was made to automatically hit, which makes judging and managing units dealing this damage easier.

Unfortunately, a big part of 'elite' infantry is their received accuracy modifier (implemented through target size), which makes them much harder to hit, and I believe this received accuracy modifier (target size) also applied to explosive damage prior to the change. After the change to explosive damage, now that there is no accuracy roll as the damage is always applied, 'elite' infantry are as vulnerable as regulars to explosive damage, although to small arms they retain their received accuracy (target size) advantages.

The effects are most obvious on 4 man units, which are much more likely to be wiped in 1 shot by explosive damage. Hence the impression Obers, Grens, and PGs are not as strong in use as they should be according to their stats.

I have not done the math on how damage is calculated, just going off of my memory of previous patches, so I could be wrong. However if I am right, an easy fix would be to simply multiply explosive damage received by the received accuracy (target_size) multiplier of infantry, which would reduce explosive damage effectiveness against 'elite' infantry, perhaps even alleviating the grenade insta-wipe problem of 4-man units.

Joseph

IIRC, a change was made last year to how explosive damage was dealt. Instead of doing an accuracy roll, the explosive damage was made to automatically hit, which makes judging and managing units dealing this damage easier.

Unfortunately, a big part of 'elite' infantry is their received accuracy modifier (implemented through target size), which makes them much harder to hit, and I believe this received accuracy modifier (target size) also applied to explosive damage prior to the change. After the change to explosive damage, now that there is no accuracy roll as the damage is always applied, 'elite' infantry are as vulnerable as regulars to explosive damage, although to small arms they retain their received accuracy (target size) advantages.

No, pretty much any main weapons with AoE still uses scatter to determine where the shot lands and how it damages whatever it hits. They don't automatically hit, it's RNG. No change such as that ever happened.

No, pretty much any main weapons with AoE still uses scatter to determine where the shot lands and how it damages whatever it hits. They don't automatically hit, it's RNG. No change such as that ever happened.

He meant the blast AoE, not projectile scatter and accuracy.

He meant the blast AoE, not projectile scatter and accuracy.

Hm, think those happened twice, right? But the only problem I recall was from mines having brokenly-high AoE for a while, certainly wasn't the root of the current issue.

I'll just rephrase what he tried to explain.

Explosions AoE could be dodged by units possessing rec acc modifiers.
Now the AoEs are tad larger, dmg dropoff is higher, but they always hit.

Example:
Before the change(which was made long time ago now), squads within sturmtiger AoE could survive uncharmed thanks to rec acc.

Now, they all evaporate.

wuuuuuuuuttttttttt

I swear that was changed like 5 months after vCoH2 release

Regardless I think I lack any sort of confidence for a further discussion on the matter.

wuuuuuuuuttttttttt

I swear that was changed like 5 months after vCoH2 release

Regardless I think I lack any sort of confidence for a further discussion on the matter.

The explosive accuracy change occurred last September according to the patch notes I looked up.

I created a new thread for this idea as I felt it important to reach a wider audience than just this thread.

Joseph