Typical "grass is greener on the other side".
Infantry sections's nade had a minimum range now and it is standard frag, ost have nuke nade with no minimum range on a cqb specialist which can be built from T0.
Sandbags can be built by pio, which also come from T0 so stop pretending thay ost cant get access to them.
Edit: Like some lad above said, UKF use to be worse ost with infantry sections as an exception, now they just be bad ost.
Jeeez - I'm like 200-400 UKF player in 1v1 without using shotcuts on the keyboard. And I'm a total noob not using any meta with them. Trust me - they are much better than ost.
But to the point - they really have everything ost player have always wanted. |
I made a video today using Fraps instead of trying to guess it by counting. The first butterfly bombs hit a little faster, somewhere between 6 and 7 seconds. The main group hit a second or two later so I think I was missing the first impacts and kept counting until the mass of them started hitting.
Also, the Fragmentation bombing run was actually a little slower than I was thinking. When watching the video and not trying to control 2 computers, it looks like more in the range of 5-6 seconds. The time difference between the two wasn't as great as I thought it was. The fragmentation run has a smaller delay but the plane seems to move slower. That makes it OP on Alliance and mediocre on anything bigger. It needs about a 1-1.5 additional second delay and a plane that flies much faster.
The edge of small maps like Alliance really is a problem. The only way I could avoid a wipe was if I had the units already selected and moved it on the warning sound. Even then, it would be badly damaged. If you have to select the unit and move it, it doesn't have enough time to get out of the AOE.
Alternatively, they could do something to it like they did to the cluster bombs. I hear the plane for the cluster bombs but not sure they're actually dropped by the plane. It may just be a timer. I'd be fine with a timer for all skill planes.
Also, just to be clear, I don't have a problem with how hard the Fragmentation run hits, only its timing on small maps.
Lots of respect for all the effort put in testing, and wow wow wow from me  (wish everybody could check stuff so meticulously)
One way or another - the question remains - do we want those off maps to be counterable by repositioning, partially counterable (like damage but no wipe when you react correctly), or just completely uncouterable if you react as expected? TBH I don't know. To me, they are similar - typical asymetrical balance and I would just look at costs - make it more or less expensive so that it is fair (still, I'd feel that it might mean making carpets more expensive - if they are used right, they will wipe team weapons without ability to dodge)
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How ._.
The whole faction is designed around all concepts that were asked for by ostheer players and rejected (close range grenade, 5th stock man gren squads, ability to build sandbags, heavy stock tanks, etc.) |
Yes, cluster bombs used to hit at around 5-6 seconds, which was considered OP. They were nerfed to around 8 seconds to impact. Your "totally not op" fragmentation bomb hits in about 2.5 seconds on a small map.
You really sure it is 8 seconds? |
Here’s a very nice video explaining how that’s not the case:
https://youtu.be/JnWNnI6YlQQ
Well, I've read too much over the years on the subject to change my opinion 180 degrees because of one vid. Anyway, purges not only eleiminated people, but those who remained were unable to make any independent decisions and were too scared to take initiative (what is imortant not only after the attack but also months and years before it, preparing troops and equipment and tactics). Stalin was also surprised (many sources state that) and wouldn't accept facts for a month or so, which led to a lot of indecisiveness. There are also many credible interpretations suggesting that the whole Soviet army was grouped to attack, not defend, which influenced the whole initial stage of Barbaross greatly. A long subject. One way or another it is good that Nazis were defeated.
Remember that many of the things this guy says is based solely on Soviet archives. What people write in documents in totalitarian states is just 300-1000% better than what it was in reality. |
According to derbyhat below, apparently the structures don't actually use these values and use garrison cover instead, so ignore the values.
However, if they were used, trenches would be the best. You take your model HP which would be 80 (82 for snipers) and if you're hit by say a 20 damage rifle, you calculate the the chance to hit of the rifle by the RA/target size. Standard RA value would be 1. So say your you have a 60% chance to hit a 1 RA model but its standing behind sandbags. Sandbags give a 0.5 RA multiplier, which means you multiply the targets RA of 1 by 0.5, which leaves you with an RA of 0.5. Now you take that RA and multiply it by the gun accuracy of 0.6 and you end up with 0.3 or 30% chance to hit and damage the model.
Now your shot if it hits normally deals 20 damage to the 80 HP model, however with a received damage modifier of 0.5 from sandbags, you take the damage and multiply it by the damage modifier. So you'd take 20 and multiply by 0.5 which gives you 10. So the shot would now deal 10 damage instead of 20.
So if we apply this to trenches from the files (and not the ones ingame), we'd see that a model RA of 1 multiplied by the 0.2 RA modifier would have a 20% chance to hit before even weapon accuracy is taken into account. So basically they'd be REALLY good.
Apparently though, none of that stuff I just wrote matters ingame XD
Thanks for the info. Would be cool to check it somehow - right now I have a feeling that bunkers are worse than garrisons. They should offer more protection as they are not cheap and it could lead to some nice bunker gameplay. |
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My diagnosis would be similar - lack of a light vehicle that is similarly potent to allied lights. Ostwind is more of a he sherman rather than a light vehicle (cost, teching requirements, etc.)
Knowing that we can't get new models of tanks (panzer 3 would be the best solution), we could allow the old upgrade on 222 - it had a button for it - to improve the cannon - you could pay some munitions and get a much better cannon - being able to penetrate t-70, AEC, stuart. It could be purchased with maybe even fuel/munitions/manpower cost. It would make it a glass cannon but if microed right able to soft counter those vehicles. |
The buff it deserve, now the commet really stat to function vs infantry. It still cant 1v1 panther so be done with it.
Actually it can. Or will leave the panther with very few healthpoits. Looking at the fact that it will deal with infantry much better, it is a better tank. |
Yes, cluster bombs used to hit at around 5-6 seconds, which was considered OP. They were nerfed to around 8 seconds to impact. Your "totally not op" fragmentation bomb hits in about 2.5 seconds on a small map.
Still their aoe is so large that they wipe well. Just predict where the enemy will move after they see the smoke. Just like I wrote, if you make bombing run cheaper you can make it drop later. It's all about cost vs result mechanics. |
Price is irrelevant if it's op. KT and JT were very much op and got nerfed.
Air supremacy got nerfed
Obers got nerfed
Balance is what we are striving for and it doesn't matter if it's a 500mu ability if it's fuckin op.
The state of another ability (especially when calling op) doesn't excuse the state of one in discussion. If you feel cluster bombs are OP make a thread, don't use it to excuse frag bomb
IMO it is totally not op. I used cluster bombs example to illustrate that similar abilities exist and are cheaper. Those boms are supposed to kill. You have reaction time. Sometimes it is just better to move to the side rather than retreat. It is very similar to penalty shots in football. The goalkeeper must just just dive left or right and has a chance to save the goal if he is lucky. Same here if you predict that the opponent will retreat you draw a line of bombs on his retreat, butbifnyourbopponent moves left or right instead of retreating they won't die. |
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