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Not only for wehrmacht.
USF is in also need of Crocodile Sherman, jeep, 30 cal, 105mm m1 howitzer, recoilless rifle.
Also the return of Panzer Elite with Hotchkiss, Hummel, flak36, Marder, Bergetiger, vampire HT, hetzer, jagdpanther... Heck, there are more, enough for a new faction to fit in.
Too bad all of these will forever a dream as Relic ditch CoH2 in favor of DoW3.
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I think my point still stands; if you move any unit and implement some "must tech up first" to use them/ use them effectively, then the moving is pointless becuase you'd still be forced to build it anyways.
You can't really truly skip tiers as Ostheer, since you need researching Battle Phases to skip over, and the units the tier provides is useful enough to not pass over.
I also personally don't like the idea of skipping tiers, given that Relic's sorta-woulda-coulda-shoulda about it. You could skip tier as OKW which presumably was kept to keep it a faction flavour, but that's because OKW is OKW; and then they took out ability to skip T3 as Soviets. That leaves USF.
Why do you want to have Ostheer able to skip T2 anwyways? I don't think Ostheer is currently uninteresting to the point that Relic needs to poke a stick in the dungheap. I'td be madness to skip T2 at all, and removing one unit won't make it much less mad.
If they want to make Ostheer interesting, I say make new commanders...or at least fix some of the lame ones. I strongly encourage the latter before doing the former, since it is easier.
I'm not fan of reading long text, so could please discuss one thing at a time?
About why I want Ostheer to skip tier2, I feel that splitting the battle phase upgrade and building is extremely redundant. I want to improve so Ostheer player has a choice.
Ostheer was able to skip tier, in the past, when tank come much faster. Nowadays, I almost didn't see any ostheer player risk to skip tier 2, and if they do, they ripe disaster. Very few success so far.
Idk, I'd move the Grenadiers to the HQ and replace them with either Panzergrenadiers or the Armored car in T1 but balance them accordingly, especially the Armored car.
This is also a good idea. But that would make mg and grenadier stuck in one building, which slow down first deployment.
There was a time when ostheer mg was in T1 building. Relic move them to HQ, which allow skip tier 1, along with Ostruppen and Assault Grenadier . |
This is a proposal with implications far too complex for me to hope to chip in very helpfully, but...
Wouldn't making the 251 require Battle Phase 2 be pretty a hefty nerf to its timing? BP2's a good bit more expensive than the T2 building and probably make the 251 arrive at the same time as the currently-justifiably later and tougher Soviet M5 HT. If this is not your intention, I would say to make the 251 require either T2 or BP2.
I agree with you, too. I will update first post. Not sure I can do anything with the poll, though.
There's no point moving units around if you still need to upgrade just to train them. It might make things worse because you can then train Panzergrenadiers/ 222 at the same time you bring out halftrack or AT Gun, etc.
The closest I would support is 221 (that is, bring back upgraded scout car). You can either hope to score easy win by spamming them early game but no fuel to tech up, blitz to T2 for 222 and hope the one or two of them you built first will last, or play as normal, and not build them until 2cm can be acquired.
Personally though I think it is fine, or at least not bad enough to warrant another switcharoo.
Moving unit to HQ allow Ostheer to SKIP tier. Something that Ostheer really need if it want to remain interesting.
The 221 was good thing in CoH. Too bad Relic didn't know how to fix it and then just turned it into 222. |
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The current Ostheer faction unit deployment:
HQ: 2 units
T1 building: 3 units
T2 building: 4 units
T3 building: 3 units
T4 building: 3 units
You will notice that there are 4 units in T2 building while there are only 2 units in HQ.
Ostheer cannot skip T2 building for that very same reason.
So my proposal is simply: move one unit from T2 building to HQ.
There are current 4 choices I could think of:
Move ATGun to HQ and require Battle Phase 1 to access.
Move Armored Car to HQ, but require tier2 building to upgrade autocannon.
Move Halftrack to HQ, but require Battle Phase 1 upgrade to access and tier2 building to upgrade flamer.
Fixed
Move Panzergrenadier to HQ, but require tier2 building to throw bundle grenade.
Which one do you think best solution? |
I got a better idea!
BEEP BEEP
I got even better idea!
BAAM BAAM
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They also need to delay initial unit to build that forward tier...
It's the same until now and there is no problem even on high ranking game, since they access to wider variety of units to counter any kind of threat. |
How does this directly nerf Brits and USFs? They spawn from their bases now too. It only slightly buffs soveits Ostheer and OKW. Ostheer and soviets have to retest their pios or CEs to build tier structures anyways. This is good compensation for that.
OKW still have their volks Spios and now mg34s spawning from their main HQ so that also doesn't make a difference. Really don't see why you think this is a stupid change.
It's directly nerf. Soviet and Ostheer can place the building at forward position, allow their 2nd unit move to combat faster.
Albeit it's just small second lag, but at beginning of the game, it's enough for player to lose because of building meta. |
here i go.
***trash stuff***
the point is these two abilites are the same but one is soooooo muche better that its op while the other is usless.
Sorry, but tldr. And I don't want to derail the topic any further.
So in summary you do not want to admit that axis have better stock while crying about allies stuffs that axis don't have. What happen if axis and allies stuffs are reversed? You can do that right now! Try playing allies and see for yourself. |
i am complaining now and for a good reason as you can see. even with no panzer commander at all, those tank commander buffs are to much for a 25 muni non doctrinal upgrade. dont you agree?
imagine if the axis tanks had those buffs plus non doctrinal blitz plus non doctrinal smoke (white phosphorus) on lets say the p4 and panther that you can shoot at guns and burn them from well over 60 range and has what 5 sec cool down with 20 muni cost? i sure you would be one of the first here to write about it
Every factions characteristics do not mean to be the same.
For example, soviet IL-2 is way too UP compare to other airplanes.
Or USF or UKF cannot have stock map hack, rocket artillery, heavy tank like OKW.
And OKW can upgrade top machinegun to anti-infantry and anti-air without going doctrine.
By versus, you try to compare two abilities while ignoring the rest of factions capabilities just because you know you won't win argument by doing so. |
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Stormtrooper is extremely useful for scouting, but not for combat. Its detection ability can hack the whole map, while remaining camouflage. I would love stormtrooper to be better, but not to the point they are better than panzergrenadier in term of combat.
And overlapping roles only make the game worse. This only lead the game to ruins where all factions are the same. |
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