Profile of Myself

TL;DR for others or in case i'm not clear.
-I don't think doubling the far DPS is the SOLUTION to fix Penals. But improving FAR DPS isn't bad as a starter cause CARBINES are not meant to be bad at long range and neither they should see their close damage reduce cause they are meant to be good at close (not as much as SMG) as well.
-I think that overall, we are overvaluing this concept. As a general rule of thumb it should be:
SMG > AR >= Carbine => Rifle > LMG

The problem is that in reality:
Upgrade > stock weapon.
There's no such thing as a sidegrade for small arm fires and this is only present on PG G43s and somehow PPSH/PTRS conscripts.

It seem that we actually agree, I have repeatedly said that the SVT needed fixing and I simply pointed out, that making it as good as Guard's mosin far while continuing to be better at all ranges and allowing 6 of them on squad was imo too much.

I also never claim that Penals should not be a long range infatry, I simply pointed out that if they are to become one, they should use a long range weapon like a bolt action rifle and not a carbine weapon.

I am also happy to see that you seem to agree (contrary to others) that weapon profiles are not obsolete and that should be followed when possible.

I am also happy to see that you agree that simply doubling their far DPS will not magically fix the Penals...(as claimed by some)

About your "Upgrade > stock weapon." problem one can make rectify the situation a bit by being more careful on what weapons one mixes. For instance conscript would probably be in better spot if instead of PPsh (with a profile that does not follow smg profile) they would get some SVTs that used a better mid oriented profile.

PTRs conscript are fine imo since they seem to follow the PG upgrade model, lose AI for some AT

He says he didn't claimed that he wants penals weak, while suggesting making osttruppen out of them while conscripts already are osttruppen.

He can't even agree with himself and you expect him to agree with anyone else?

He has set his mind before joining the thread, no amount of reason or logic will get to him, he is terrified of the penal buff and will do everything he can to prevent it and nothing will change that.

Just because you Katitof think a certain way (Buff Allies nerf Axis) does mean that everyone else does the same also.

You are even using absurd claims like "Conscript already are Osttruppen" to claim that others are funboys while you are a funboy yourself. Osttruppen are one of the most cost efficient unit wer has and it is being used even at high level regularly, on the other hand you claim that no one use Conscript so there are no similarities even according to you, other than both being 6 men squad and having a tank snare...

It was also you that had your mind set up before joining this thread and no amount of reason or logic may get to you. This is what you wrote and it clearly shows that you have you mind made up before joining the thread and you want listen to reason:

Long range DPS from 4 to 8.
Done, unit fixed.
Nothing more is needed, no big changes, no new abilities, no vet changes.
Just this simple change gives them new utility without impacting their intended role of mid range squad.

In other word stop accusing others of what you yourself actually do all the time. If being a funboy according to you is bad thing stop being one. If not listen to others is bad thing, stop acting like what you suggest is the best and only solution out there.

PGs are cost-effective already, and I'd prefer keeping a good AI unit without a necessary upgrade in their repertoire as is.

Guess it a matter of preference, I would rather have them cheaper with a weapon upgrade...Another idea would be to allow Pioneer upgrade with g43 (mutally exclusive with flamers/swippers) instead of PGs...

AND that's your opinion not a fact.

Yes it is my opinion and no a fact.

"Weapon profiles" were meant as an easy guideline for newbies to understand at what ranges and roles their units would perform better. But since balance trumps realism, there has been lot of changes to weapons which depart from this point.

Weapon profiles did not have to do much with realism and thus one can continue to use weapon profiles and have balance...

-Gewehr42 (Falls) are assault rifles and are also better than Ober Kars at far. They are better than the only LMG (DP) for Soviets at far.

Falls use Fallschirmjägergewehr 42 which is not a assault rifle.

SVT is the only weapon functioning as a "carbine"...

Actually it is not it has too much DPs close not enough mid.

So stop with the "weapon profiles" thing. Many thing have changed and been introduced since then.

and allot thing have not changed:
Most Bolt action rifles do more damage than carbine and SMG weapon
Most Carbine weapon fire faster than bolt action rifles
most SMG weapon fire faster then both Carbine and bolt action rifle

Weapon profiles defines the range where a weapon will be more effective its ROF its Damage per shot for most in game weapons. The effectiveness of a weapon is also related other things like the cost of the unit or the cost of upgrading to it, thus a Carbine might have more DPS than Bolt action far and vice versa.

IF SVT would be "OP" if we buff them cause they are 6 of them? Well you can treat them equally to PF. Give them 3, make them better and replace the rest with Mosins.

I did not claim that SVT would be OP if they where buffed but they would be op if there far DPS was doubled and 6 of them where given...
If one wants change their DPS having them start with mosins and offer SVTs (+flamer?) as an upgrade will make things easier to balance.

Imo weapon profiles was a great improvement to small arm fire for a number of reason.
Most importantly it allowed players to estimate the optimum distance they should fight from by simply knowing what weapon type his and the opponent's squad use.

Relic imo should follow weapons profiles when that is possible.

wouldn't a pgren SP win at mid/ close still (kinda like the inverse of con/gren?)

edit: a close range nerf was never suggested, thats what is hanging me up. a long range buff would require a short ranged dps nerf

With allot of the stats suggested Penals with flamers would probably win vs PG and SP at all ranges, while dominate grens and Volks at all ranges.