Hahahahahahahahahaha, the faster teching pace. Hahahaha. Did you mean the most expensive teching and the only faction that has its heavy hitter hidden behind a fourth Tier that can only be reached through a linear teching path?
This is getting ridiculous, people who have never played Ostheer claim a load of bullshit. Well, standard for this forum I guess...
1v1 Shadowwada or you're a bitch |
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USSR hmg bunker would never be used
They already dominate flanks with T70/M3/Cons/Demos
In map center it would get wrecked by Axis just like fighting positions as USf |
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USF will be tourney-ready this patch.
-mortar opens up building denial, and punishes static Ost play. (Ostruppen or MG42s basically)
-.50 cal shreds 222, and soft counters OKW lights/Puma. The fact that the .50 cal can shred 222 and the new mortar means that USF can keep their forces close together early-mid game and potentially beat Ost at combined arms. (M20 would chase sniper while 222 is deterred.)
-removal of Shrek blobs means that AA track play/light play in general will be super viable against OKW, just kite fausts and bleed models. Assuming healthy bleed on the OKW they should afford 2 raks, max. If they go Puma, .50 cal and AT gun counter it. (And Stuart with ability.)
-Major arty + a couple zook shots can finish off a Shwerer HQ, for only 60 munis.
-buffed AT gun means that anti infantry fuel builds (like a focus on newly buffed Scotts, or Caliopes) are more viable because you can now get solid AT for 270 MP.
-Self spotting Jackson enables you to not run into pak walls and makes it better at dueling Panthers/Tigers, and snipe down retreating mediums/lights.
IMO for the longest time the USF strat was mobile rifle play with forces spread around the map, flanking and smoking until upgrades and vehicles came in so they could continue flanking and harassing until the Axis player gets out-teched, or in the OKW case they lose Shwerer/go into a massive MP deficit. This didn't work at higher levels because the most solid Rifle play can be countered by Snipers, HMGs in buildings, and fast Luches + Shreks.
Now that USF has early cheap indirect, HMG that counters lights, and an AT gun that reliably pens mediums combined arms is now an option as the USF, so it should see higher level play. (I think that a fast M20 will always nullify-not kill- Sniper now, unless you run over a Teller.)
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If you like the 2x downgraded STGs for 60 munis, then that is probably because you don't like to face stronger volks. (I am assuming you don't play as OKW at all.)
OKW has to spend every single muni they can get and that is why they got scavenge as a non-doc ability.
Vet 3 RM have literally no upkeep cost as they don't lose a single model.
Volks vet is inferior to all the other baseline inf, Tommies don't even need vet to wreck volks and obers since they have a received accuracy of 0.7 and the highest ROF of any rifle based unit, and can pick up 2 different types of strong LMGs.
I like the postpatch OKW a lot, and I love the concept of the army.
OKW swims in muni because only sinks are 60 muni upgrades, mines, and nades. They have best early map control and always swim in munis.
Vet 3 RM have high upkeep lol
Volks offensive vet, self healing and vision boost at vet 4 (right?) makes them trade effectively at most ranges, specially with nade usage |
This is a proposal with implications far too complex for me to hope to chip in very helpfully, but...
Wouldn't making the 251 require Battle Phase 2 be pretty a hefty nerf to its timing? BP2's a good bit more expensive than the T2 building and probably make the 251 arrive at the same time as the currently-justifiably later and tougher Soviet M5 HT. If this is not your intention, I would say to make the 251 require either T2 or BP2.
221 scoutcar to T0, 5 fuel cost, give more utility somehow. 75 muni autocannon upgrade at BP1, buff autocannon effectiveness. |
What kept Ost early alive against USF is the 222, the sacrifice of sniper counter and HMG for AT, and the lack of indirect. I'll give ingame examples.
IE 3 rifle, mortar>LT>M20>.50 cal
Previously Grens could bleed rifles by engaging at range in better cover-now they get to taste the mortar, and if they reposition Rifles advance and trade better.
MG42 in buildings/choke point= hello, mortar.
.50 cal ability to shred M20 means that a .50 cal - M20 working together can hypothetically stop everything Ost has short of Paks until armor rolls out-note that as of this patch, USF can get by against Ost with only solid rifle play into the Stuart meta.
Ost will be forced to move units due to mortar, will be unable to use 222 offensively due to the .50 cal, unless it goes somewhere else. But then it can't defend the sniper, and because the M20 is pursuing the sniper he can't shoot at the Rifles + mortar combo that are clubbing the poor Grens and MG42s to death by forcing repositions with smoke and the standard mortar auto attack. Once you put LMGs or flamer REs and rifle flares into the mix it only gets worse for Ost, too.
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Ostheer is in for hell against every Allied faction. The faction is outdated. Still looking forward to USF motar though, will be helpful vs OKW with smoke etc.
Against sovs all you have to worry about is Penals, I'm sure good HMG play or maybe even ostruppen can force them to go for T2/120mm as well, giving you tech and MP advantage. Oh and no more mine wipes is good for Ost
Against UKF it's basically the same but you have to worry less about mines
USF will literally dump on Ost up until tanks roll out, even then with buffed AT gun and Jackson I don't think they have to worry |
250MP is not exactly cheap. 2 modified Mp44s are not going to help cracking any lines.
It is just a gimmick sidegrade with no purpose other than supposedly making up for the removal of shrecks and wasting 60 munis.
This "they are cheap they should suck dick" argument does not cut it, seeing how tommies/RM for a 30 Mp difference wreck the elitest AI units.
Not to mention cons with their 45 muni upgrade can challenge and often force a fallback on PGrens, Sturms and AGrens.
250 MP is average price, however Volks have almost no upkeep. This is why they're cheap.
Relative to the OKW economy 60 muni for a package that increases Volks dps and mobility is a good deal, they have little mandatory muni sinks unlike USF or Ost.
MP44s + vet allow them to deal solid damage most importantly on the move, like flanking an AT gun or HMG, or chasing a squad out of cover after chucking a grenade. The ability to deal damage on the move increases their mobility and allows you to use them in situations where they would normally be out of their element, like chasing down retreating squads, fighting elite troops at close range, chasing support weapons, spraying down flamer engineers, etc.
On "cheap they should suck argument"= every factions economy is different due to their design, Volks have almost no upkeep and OKW has little mandatory muni sinks, and Volks are a utility unit, Riflemen have high upkeep and are a utility unit-they should have a higher performance ceiling. To increase rifles performance is expensive, while Volks just need 60 muni and vet. In this patch Volks are essentially more economic Riflemen that start off worse but scale cheaper. This is due to the combination of fire nade, 10 muni nade, MP44, faust, and vet.
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Only advice I can give is building mortars of you're own and using the vet 1 ability, or using your 251/250/222 to try and take it out. Ost is in for hell against USF next patch though.
.50 cal hardcountering 222/Puma and infantry
M20 hardcountering sniper, soft countering 222 and infantry
Mortar countering MG42/Pak
Rifles soft counter everything, hardcounter light vehicles, MG42, or infantry depending on muni upgrade
USF will reliably have the ability to push Ost off the map in 12 minutes |
And what is there to fix actually?
They scale well, PTRS are useful, they are not weapon pinatas anymore, they don't do rain dances.
They're one of the most balanced inf in the game.
Imo they're the most balanced infantry in the game, tied with Rifles and post 21st patch Volks. |
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