Currently every faction is pigeonholed into some commanders because X or Y. Soviets need a decent call in infantry (+ ideally T34/85, ISU or IS2), Wehrmacht has to get Tiger (or Elefant, but it is more situational), USF has to go rifle company to get EZ8, and Oberkommando has to ggo Breakthrough for JT (they also have stock KT, but JT is the better option most of the time).
So i think the problem lies in the heavies in general, and ISU is the flagship of this tank category, being a decent counter to its hard counters. That's the main issue here, if you take any other heavy, it is somewhat lacking in either AT or AI (well, not Tiger, but it is a 'balanced' heavy tank, it is outshined in both department by some other more specialized tank from the list). And usually in a RTS, if a unit is so strong it has no reliable counter (reliable being a whole different story than praying the RNG gods you don't get too many PAK or squad wipes), it deserves to be toned down. I'm not asking for ISU nerf, but i think it deserves it. The whole heavy tanks system need a rework too, but this is another subject: first bring ISU to the other heavies level, then balance the whole call in meta. |
Brilliant idea, map makers are usually left alone with their work without feedback or anything, it would reward them more seeing their maps being played in automatches (unranked, but still). |
You mean a "ISU detected, spread out or we will go all to hell at once!" Button?
Would be cool!
And the Allies get a "You heard this? STUKA!!! SPREAD OUT!" Button!
Kind of, yeah. And it would be realistic too, you don't clump up like madmen when you know mortar shots are coming, or an artillery barrage, or a HE shells shooting tank is pointing it's canon toward you and your squad. You run for cover, ideally not all in the same direction. |
Time to add a "scatter squad" button in the UI. Red Alert has had this since the very beginning, yet a more complete game like CoH doesn't have it. It would probably screw up pathing even more, but it would be useful to have. |
Jaigen, you constantly compare conscripts to volks at vet0, scaling is a very important factor: especially for axis in general, both factions tend to play defensively in the early part of the game, and focus on unit preservation to turn the table later in the game with superior veterancy on infantry, and superior armor in general. Also you state that the conscripts are OP when compared to volks, because they have one more man in the squad. Does it really matter when you have less dps ? They tend to lose one man in the approach most of the time, which means that the fight is at worst an even trade at close range, and you should be avoiding the close range like the plague, by kiting, or even better, if you convert one truck early, by denying them a path to you with a nade. I'm no pro, and no, i'm not an allied player, but i don't think Volks are UP in any way. They cost 235, are decent at all ranges, and scale like beasts (if you preserve them, which is definitely possible with a 5 man squad that gets -RA bonus on almost every vet level). |
This game is not supposed to be realistic, it has to make sense in a gameplay perspective.
But still it depicts a real life war, with (even if not perfect) attention to details. That's why you will read people who are nitpicking about some of those details that are off the mark. I agree it shouldn't be the main focus of the game, but some things can be improved in that department. If it isn't important for you, it may be important for others. |
Well marketeconomy may not be the best way to organize the world but maybe it would be the best way to balance rts-games. It seems that relic never will be able to balance this game. Wouldnt it be better that the price of the units would be dependent on the market? If many buy (build) a unit the unit would go up in price and if few build a unit the price will fall. AS an example, in this state of the game the SU-76 would be much cheaper than it is at the moment and rifles maybe would be a bit more expensive.
Having to look at every unit's price everytime you want to build one would be a pain in the ass, imo. And basic infantry for each faction would be all screwed up, just imagine grens being 350 mp, or riflemen being 400 ^^ |
To say nothing of the other absurdities in OKW (and the German faction design in general), yes, it's bothered me since day 1 that the MG42 was used in the Eastern Front (It was, but not until after Stalingrad, basically). The fire rate difference between the 34 and 42 is due to a difference in the locking system of each weapon within the action. The barrel was prone to overheating, but this isn't much of an issue considering that a portable drum magazine (around 50 rounds) prevented this from happening, while the belt-feed HMG variants could simply change the barrel.
Both were extremely effective machine guns, but the MG42 was better in basically every aspect. That the MG34 as a weapon performs better (even for other factions) is a travesty and reflects how poorly designed and ill-conceived OKW is in general, especially from a historical standpoint.
This is to say nothing of the Maxim, of course. I'm in favor of replacing the Maxim with the much more common and sensible Goryunov SG43, or even a DP squad, for crying out loud. This is coming from a mainly Soviet player, too.
To reply to the OP, yes, this is something that has bothered me since OKW was released. It's absurd that they get an HMG that is cheaper, yet just as effective as any other comparable unit. Also, it can get up to vet 5 and kill light vehicles, too. Yup. Part of the OKW doctrine of "weaknesses, but not really because we patched them to not have any." It's all a big mess.
I feel you there on the history part, there are so much weird things in the game (don't even get me started on Wehrmacht infantry camos, lol). |
And do you recognize e8 costs just 10 more fuel?
I think we can all stop that easy 8 vendetta thing, pretty much all the community agrees that this tank is OP for it's cost. If we consider the fact that it will be nerfed (let's just hope not too hard, as it is a good option for USF), we can't compare other tanks that were fine before easy 8 introduction into the game, and decide balance using that comparison. That would create other imbalances, and shake the whole game's state. Let's just forget about it, and trust Relic will bring it on par with other tanks that are mostly fine (34/76, 34/85, P4, Vanilla Sherman, OKW Panther are all finely tuned, at least imo, Wehrmacht's Panther is another topic and deserves it's own adjustment).
OT: i think P4 is fine as it is: potent multi purpose tank, very good AI, good AT for it's position in the tech tree and cost, nice mobility and decent armor. I have a feeling that this tank will become the core of Wehrmacht armor after Relic is done "reviewing the faction", and the basis for comparison for all other Axis tanks. At least i hope so. |
Well, historically it would have surely made the most sense if both types had been used in both armies simultaneously. I don't think it makes no sense that Obersoldaten use MG34 instead, as the MG34 was still used and even produced until the end of the war even though the MG42 was cheaper to produce, which is not really a factor in CoH2 even though that would be its main advantage historically.
From what I remember (you may correct me), from the sources I heard the combat differences between MG42 and 34 are not that big and some soldiers are claimed to even have prefered the MG34 because of small detail differences or maybe they just liked the MG34 more because it probably "felt" more valuable.
But yeah, no use discussing about history I think when both guns should remain balanced in comparison to the Maxim
You are right, both types were used throughout the war, but historical accuracy is not respected: MG42 was cheaper to produce, since it was a simplified design of the MG34 (actually half the build time, and 60% cost) In the game we have a cheaper MG34 => first inaccuracy.
MG42 had also the higher fire rate of the two, with 1200 rpm (upgraded to 1800 by the end of the war), while MG34 was 'only' firing at 800-900 rpm. The MG34 has a better suppression in game=> second inaccuracy.
MG34 production was also halted when MG42 entered mass-production, but it saw use until the end of the war, mostly it's vehicle variant, MG34T.
Accuracy would mean (and yes, i know i am nitpicking here, because it is not relevant to balance) that infantry support HMG of Wehrmacht should be MG34 (since this is the incarnation of the German army of 1940 - 1943), and the infantry version of the Oberkommando weapon should be MG42 (German army from 1943 -1945). Both faction's vehicles should be named MG34 though, as MG42 saw almost no use as a vehicle machine gun.
As for the details, i only know what wikipedia has to offer, i actually do not know what were soldiers of that time frame thoughts about the two versions. Apparently, MG42 (thanks to the simplified design) was more robust and lighter, and would resist to dust a bit more, while being a bit more prone to overheat than the MG34. |