Balance on the release was special, but I mean, a lot of the stuff was patched out pretty quickly by relic.
I guess, if you want to play truly "old fashion" game, you could try looking for a patch right before WFA release.
Game was pretty balanced, with some rough edges (like double soviet sniper) and required just a little bit more fixes, but WFA messed it up.
Well, I got my metaphorical hands on Version 3.0.0.9-something (through dubiously legal means, though it shouldn't really matter because I already paid for the game anyways) and I have to say that I feel pretty embarassed now, because it seems that the mod wasn't really that accurate to the game at release at all..
Tanks are much faster in this version than in the mod (the mod made me think that originally CoH2 had clunky and slow tanks, which imo would have been better design but I digress). Tanks are cheaper on manpower and more fuel expensive. All my experiences with the COH2013 mod effectively amount to those of someone's alternate history project.
I had ought to ask the mods to hide this thread out of pure shame  |
Extremely early. Extremely might not even do it justice, i wanna say ppl could get a 34/76 out in 7-8 minutes. Maybe faster tbh, its been a while
Yeah. I guessed that would be only way it would even be useful. Otherwise, that manpower hit would make it hardly worth it.
I mean, from what I saw in the mod, SU-85 was like 40 fuel anyways, and T34 was 60 fuel. |
Extremely early. Extremely might not even do it justice, i wanna say ppl could get a 34/76 out in 7-8 minutes. Maybe faster tbh, its been a while
Quick question; I can't tell if this is the mod being unfinished or not but... T1/T2 and T3/T4 are not mutually exclusive in the COH2013 mod. But I had heard that that was how the game was originally balanced.
Is this maybe something that came shortly after release? Or is it just unfinished mod stuff.
EDIT: They aren't mutually exclusive, but you have to build T3 before T4, which cost 100 and 110 fuel, respectively. |
Yup it started at vet 3 and the "buy veterancy" was 0cp
Well considering what I'd seen in game, I can't see it being used until you build your first warcrime halftrack at least. But after that it's pretty much busted.
When did veterancy get changed from special ability > extra durability > damage anyways? |
Original Tiger Ace was 100% free and it froze your fuel and manpower income for as long as it was alive, so people used it for an all-in push.... which worked most of the times because back then the Tiger Ace could easily solo three SU-85s: it had very high armor and SU85 pen back then was not good, it had seemingly endless HP, and the PaK40 stunshot ability on top of the very lethal vet 3 performance with Blitzkrieg and smoke. If they had let's say a couple Panthers or P4s on the field at the time the Tiger Ace arrived, it was pretty much a guaranteed win.
Didn't it start with vet 3 as well? Vet 3 panthers already took like 16 shots from the ZiS-3 to die, so I can only imagine how the Tiger Ace was.
You could buy veterancy too, that is correct. 80mp and 25 fuel for enough veterancy to turn a fresh gren squad immediately into vet 3. Funnily enough this could also be used to buy veterancy for your (OKW) teammates and OKW veterancy was very OP in the first years of that faction.
Definitely really good. Though I don't even know if it would be particularly worth considering that they can disappear in moments from a mortar XD.
If this was a CP 0 ability though... yeah that would be REALLY op.
The T-34 was in t3 back then so you could bring it on the field before the Ostheer player even got his building out to construct pak 40s or panzergrens... you just couldn't spam infantry with that doctrine, but you didn't need to anyway.
Yeah, I figured that it would probably be the fact that it came out so early rather than the fact that they could make a lot of them. The hit to manpower is actually a lot more impactful than one would assume going off of today's balance, I think. B/C tanks were very expensive in manpower from what I saw. But yeah, T34 coming out that early likely meant that it could go all the way to OST's base and there's nothing they could do about it (I didn't see OST engineers with any AT mines..)
Granted, even with the fuel increase, I imagine that T2 being built wouldn't be that far off, but that doesn't matter when the T34 can literally come into the base and kill the engineers while they build the structure lmao. |
Did you test yet if this mod changes the Soviet Industry & Wehrmacht Elite Unit doctrines? If yes, I highly recommend going for that and grab some popcorn because you're gonna witness two things that are in the "top 10 most OP pay2win DLC in the history of videogaming" 
Sadly, this mod was abandoned before it could have any changes to the commanders proper. All that was included at the time of writing was Festung Armor and Guard Motor Coordination. 
Elite Unit doctrine... I'm guessing that's the pay for vet thing? Or I might have heard whisperings of every infantry unit starting with veterancy 1...
Tiger Ace (if it was in that commander at the time), I assume, was the version where it was free (or very cheap for it's performance idk wasn't there) to call in but took away all resources until it died?
EDIT: Soviet Industry. Did this give you access to the T34-85 at the time? Honestly when I was playing, fuel was never a limiting factor to making T3476, it was always manpower. And from what I saw, soviet industry increased fuel at the cost of manpower.
So how was this OP? Very early T34? KV-2 spam? I wonder. |
if you want to play truly "old fashion" game, you could try looking for a patch right before WFA release.
I would love to do this. Any ideas for how I could do this? Any archive sites? Or is this something that I'm going to have to put on the eyepatch for..  |
Balance on the release was special, but I mean, a lot of the stuff was patched out pretty quickly by relic.
I guess, if you want to play truly "old fashion" game, you could try looking for a patch right before WFA release.
Game was pretty balanced, with some rough edges (like double soviet sniper) and required just a little bit more fixes, but WFA messed it up.
So, I'm wondering , how exactly did it mess it up? If I was going to guess, the expensive riflemen were just too good against everything OST could field, and couldn't even be countered by MG because riflemen smoke. Was their teching too fast on top of that, or was it something else?
For OKW, if sturmpios were anything like they were today, I could imagine your only hope as soviet to combat them would be shock troops. But if those were indeed 450 manpower, then waiting for them to get built would probably result in the OKW rushing your base with le goobelwagens and suppressing anyone who tries to get out.
Am I somewhat close or no?
EDIT: I just remembered about snipers, so snipers could probably counter the sturms (duh), and the M3A1 I would assume could beat the kubel. So how exactly did the OKW break balance? Tanks too good? Fuel from wrecks pre placed on the map? The old OKW resource switch mechanic?
Also, snipers in the mod were 240 manpower. This can't have been the case for the actual multiplayer, right? |
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Oh. Shock Troops were one of those units that would become available to you, but seemed to be unintentional. They were 360 manpower, where I heard they were supposed to be 450. And this version had Fire Superiority.
EDIT: They were also f@#king b@#%sh%t because you could put them in the clown car and wipe everything until LVs came out. If they had cost 450 manpower, I think this would be like 20% more acceptable. |
Couple questions
Can you sniper clown car? That shit was insane when I first tried it.
Does the IS2 do stun damage? Depending on the patch they were similar in strength but a few good RNG rolls for stun would literally make any opposing tank unusable.
Do infantry still use armor in the mod or has it switched to target size?
Yes, sniper clown car was available in all it's nutty glory.
The IS-2 did not do stun damage in the mod sadly. There were no stuns, but it hit like a truck with veterancy.
Yes, infantry got armor with vet from what I could tell.
Thanks for the summary, was a nice read. Doesn't sound like that patch is trying to be the V1.0 CoH2 from June 2013 though, otherwise you probably would have mentioned ISU-152 and Elefant being in t4, and the ridiculous damage system on top of complete lack of weapon profiles. 
damage system: Back then, a penetrating shot of an Elefant or Tiger removed ~90% HP from a SU-85 or T-34, BUT both soviet units were able to bounce a shot from these tanks 
weapon profiles: CoH2 launched without weapon profiles, like in CoH1. Meaning SMGs & LMGs had the same rate of fire and burst duration across all ranges, only the accuracy was affected by distance to target
About weapon profiles; I did notice that conscripts lost to grenadiers without upgrades while the cons were behind green cover, which was funny. I don't *think* weapon profiles were implemented, because like I said, the LMG shredded the shit out of conscripts who got close.
Elefant was, in fact, in T4. However, ISU was only available to be built if you picked an ISU commander. Probably more WIP mod stuff (that will never be fixed because author abandoned it). I did notice, however, that the ISU did fuckloads of damage, but had trash penetration. It could bring a Panther to 90% health, but only if it penetrated. Maybe Elefant was the same way. Usually we preferred Panthers.
Tiger definitely didn't take away 90% HP though. Even from T34-85. Likely it was simply copy pasted from single player or something.
Technically only the Elefant was available. All the other heavies seemed to be able to be unintentionally made available at T4 if you picked the right commander. So yes those were probably not accurate to how they were at the time. |
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