Profile of wehrwolfzug

Engineers have wire cutters please nerf.....

Except they're better because their Rifles and MG 42 let them fight at Long Range. Yes, they're just as squishy, but they're more effective because of their range advantage.



In CoH1, Stormtroopers with 2x MP 44 upgrade were the BEST AI Infantry in the game. They put Knights Cross Holders and PE Assault Grenadiers to shame. If you imported them into CoH2, they'd tear Shock Troops to pieces. They are absolutely not comparable to CoH2 Panzergrenadiers.

If anything, Panzergrenadiers are comparable to weaker PE Assault Grenadiers.

I also want to point out that the Bundle Grenade in CoH1 and the Bundle Grenade in CoH2 are also very different. The Bundle Grenade in CoH1 was a small demo charge, the one in CoH2 is just a slightly larger Grenade.



And in their current state, the Assault Rifles make them more difficult to use, not less. Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers have the same health and armour stats, but Grenadiers are long range and Panzergrenadiers and close. Why are you not understanding this?

The high cost and reinforcement cost makes them undesirable. If you want close combat troops, you're better off with a Flame Pioneer squad. Or are Flame Pios OP too and we should remove the Flamethrower upgrade?




Like I said before, CoH1 Grenadiers are not comparable to CoH2 Grenadiers. They share similarities only in name and squad count. Their role is significantly different as are their abilities and weapons. Also:

1. PE Incendiary Grenades did not have a chance to instant kill, they only did slow DoT and were not a "remove support weapon" button.
2. Are you forgetting about the nuclear pineapple? Or are you implying it should replace Rifle Grenades, because I wouldn't argue with that:

I do admire the effort you are putting forward with this discussion and it makes for healthy balance ideas however I feel you missing a few key concepts here.

I never said storm troopers and panzer grenadiers were exactly the same because they are not. They are even named different. However I had pointed out the cost as some people are claiming that pg are not cost effective and that they do not do their job which they do.

First off you must pay for ST assault rifles. When the game was released you did not have assault grenadiers so these troops filled that role. I would also like to add they were doctrine specific. As for the better bundle nade having more explosive power it was because the allies were able to build mg nest that could be garrisoned along with trenches so you needed a little extra oomph.

The current state of the coh2 assault rifles do not make them harder to use. They are medium range which means longer range damage which you pointed Grens have an advantage because of range yet some how extra range for pg is bad. Pg still have great damage at short range, just better mid range because they are not shock troops. Mid range is roughly bundle nade range.

Toss the bundle nade and kill with assault rifles after. If the enemy is rushing your pg in cover to close distance ex soviet shocks, then you toss the bundle nade from defensive cover. Either the shocks take massive damage or they evade and take massive damage because they are still at range and ineffective. I would say coh2 pg are a hybrid of coh1 panzer grenadiers and storm troopers. So I would be carefull to claim they are more one than the other.

Again the high reinforce cost is to stop spamming and if you cannot come out on top of the manpower war of losing two models to an enemy squad wipe you are doing something wrong. That's not a balance issue. That's a player issue.

Also the pg initial cost is really not that much higher than Grens as you will only build one or at most two pg squads through an entire game. The extra 120 mp is easily justified for the potential damage you can inflict on the enemy via bundle nade, assault rifles or duel panzer shreks. You take out one at gun or tank and you have pretty much made your manpower back. We will not even begin to add the psychological factor it adds as now you can lethally flank the enemy. Heck you could easily wipe a guard sqaud with them. Shocks can be taken out if pg are used correctly.

And once again I will point out if you want to blob Grens you can use doctrines that make it more economically viable such as the infantry doctrine. People seem to forget about the doctrines that also ad the stealth ability which makes pg even more powerfull.

I just hear a lot of exaggerating on how bad pg are yet it seems like very few people have actually spent the time working with them and testing the doctrines that boost their performance either.

So an offensive ability somehow is creates better defence? i cannot even begin to comprehend that particular line of thought. But i will correct you. Grens do need to leave their cover. pg do to be effective damage dealers.

Also comparing fausts to shreks is borderline retarded. really the only thing they have in common is that they are used by infantry

Also free assault rifles or smg's for that matter doesnt entice me or anyone. the last patch made cover all important and that pushed infantry that uses lmg's rifles or carbines to the forefront and only made shocktroopers useful in the long run as they are the most durable infantry unit out their but even they got greatly reduced in effectiveness compared to the last patch.

I clearly said that the cost upfront for panzer shreks is because you do not have to pay for each use unlike panzer Faust where there is no cost upfront and therefore they are pay per use. I am not sure why you cannot clearly comprehend that? Maybe the idea is not borderline retarded, maybe it is your lack of ability to understand this simple concept.....

The free assault rifles do not entice you because you have issues with simple match/economics and basic flanking tactics. You should not speak for anyone as you are insulting their basic cognitive thinking abilities by comparing theirs to your own. Any infantry squad can flank if the player has the mental aptitude to move a mouse cursor and click on the map using a little map and situational awareness.

Conscripts flank all the time even without Oorah.

It was never a problem during the Soviet T2 meta, when you could use MG's and Mortars without worrying about M3 spam although double Sniper was still a problem. Even when they have 1.2 armour nobody complained about them or Grenadiers. Now that they're too squishy to do their job (which nobody can agree on what their job actually is anymore), suddenly Grenadiers are OP?

Yeah, no. And if you want to nerf Grenadiers so hard, I hope you also plan to nerf everything else to balance is out, otherwise Ostheer will be in for one hell of a ride.

They are the same squishy ness as grenadiers because they are grenadiers with a different load out. They are just as survivable as Grens with g43' except they do not have a rifle nade. And if not having a rifle nade makes them too squishy then I proves my point that the rifle nade is the issue just like I said it was.

You pay munitions for the panzer shrek upgrade but you pay munitions because you do not have pay each time you use them unlike the panzer Faust. In coh1 storm troopers cost the same and you had to pay for the assault rifles upgrade and the panzer shreks separately. In coh2 you get the assault rifles free for the same cost as storm troopers in coh1.

Again the extra cost for pg is the free assault rifles, bundle nade ability and the ability to upgrade them to the best at infantry in the game. The high reinforce cost is to prevent spamming. The squad does a great job in the hands of a skilled player.

I didn't say nerf rifle nade. I said make rifle nade doctrine specific as this one ability allows ost users to bypass pg for killing At guns, weapon support teams or dug in infantry. The rifle nade is from coh1 British faction. It was given to the British for an upgrade cost and cost per use. It was given to the British because the Brits had a movement penalties without officers. In short they could not flank. So an ability was needed and well deserved.

Grenadiers never had these issues and I still cannot figure out why relic thought grenadiers needed the rifle nade ability in the first place. And for those who say because soviets have molotovs. Let me remind you that it is the german panzer elite who had flame nades in coh1 and the Americans did just fine without a rifle nade because it is a crap ability that only works on below average skilled players.

That was a pretty cool link

Yeah I was very impressed with the material. I really enjoyed the report on the Russians. It was very in depth and unbiased. I hope relic reads it some day as it would really help with the russian faction design. So cool reading real action reports from small companies that were really there in the moment. What worked and what did not work ect.

Just love reading the battles where wave upon wave of russian infantry would have to crawl over their fallen comrades. Some of the waves had bodies stacked waist high. That's something you think only happens in Hollywood but it was really happening to these companies of german soldiers.