Wehr weak penetration

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 03:07 AMVipper

Now check the cost difference between a T-34/85 with a PzIV and a Sherman with a Panther. Actually if one's opponent is spamming allied mediums making Panther is not the best response, one would probably do better making stugs or PzIVs.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 03:07 AMVipper

Bottom line is that PzIV is not a very good investment because it has a high cost for the window of opportunity it has. Which has become smaller with the changes to Super heavies.

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2019, 23:21 PMVipper

1) Ostheer panther has high tech and high cost
2) Panther has little AI and can be countered by ATGs or TDs or even swarmed by mediums
3) Panther has very low rear armor and can be penetrated by mediums even when vet 2
4) Allied mediums have extra utility like smoke rounds, ram, extended vision, HE rounds
5) Allied premium, heavies and super heavies can put fight vs a Panther (they might not be to 1v1 but they can damage it and fight when supported)
6) As I have pointed allies have little reason to built medium since they can do with up-gunned infatry and TDs
7) You missed my point the part you quoted I mentioned "allied premium, heavies and super heavier appear" Panther is not any of those vehicles.

PzIV H for instance that is premium for Ostheer does not make allied mediums obsolete.

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2019, 17:56 PMStug life

fixed

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 06:54 AMmrgame2

Thanks! I forgot that brumbar armor nerf. Somehow things get quicker against axis armor.

Again the discussions we need to look at why the view that axis have such lower pen values still?

Is a little more hp but against plenty of 160 standard damage or faster speed but lousier rotation rof or accuracy, or not enough relevant vet bonus?

Do these older design choices not be reviewed just because Wehr is considered 'base template'? Yes unit composition, build order, availability, i don't deny Wehr is good faction. But Performance per cost per counters, have they kept up with all the changes? That's a no imo

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 07:50 AMmrgame2

I won't call it 100% axis juice.

More like those more familiar with the good and bad of Wehr and trying to bring up the forgotten brushed aside normals today.

The point is allies AT were given much thoughts to counter axis heavy armor over time. So much so that a little forgotten pieces have deposited to Wehr AT in regards to pen.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 08:27 AMgbem

The panther isnt meant to counter the IS2... its meant to counter allied mediums... use your own superheavy tanks/tds to counter the IS2...

And if you think that allied heavy TDs shouldnt be countering panthers then youve admitted bias...

Then again we should just ignore this troll thread from the guy that loses panthers to AECS like a scrub...

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 08:27 AMgbem

The panther isnt meant to counter the IS2... its meant to counter allied mediums... use your own superheavy tanks/tds to counter the IS2...

And if you think that allied heavy TDs shouldnt be countering panthers then youve admitted bias...

Then again we should just ignore this troll thread from the guy that loses panthers to AECS like a scrub...

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 05:48 AMSuperHansFan

Panther is expensive and sucks against massed ATG wall? Who would have thought.

It's a good thing it comes in a tier with rocket arty then isn't it? Something Brits can't say the same for comet. Panther is fine and so is P4.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 04:59 AMSkysTheLimit

You didnt stop at premiums, you said heavies and super heavies make p4 obselete. Check that cost difference, thats a lot more extreme than panther vs medium

The panther is absolutely relevant, its literally one of the things the thread is about. You can say its a different type of unit, but it still outclasses allied mediums. Super heavies are a different type of unit too...

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 04:59 AMSkysTheLimit

Bottom line is the same is true for the stock allied mediums. The window for all medium tanks became shorter with super heavy change, this is not just ostheer

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 10:11 AMStug life

m sorry, which TD I'm supposed to use ? Both jp4 a d stug have weak pen and the stug even has 50 range

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 10:20 AMKatitof

Panther very much IS meant to counter IS-2.
That doesn't mean it has to pen every shot, just like allied TDs bounce off of KT.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 10:55 AMVipper

Again Panther is neither a premium nor a heavy nor a Super heavy it is a TD. Any comparison of the Panther has to be with FF/SU-85/M-36. All 3 of them are more cost efficient counter to meduims than Panther is.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 10:55 AMVipper

Yes that is true difference here is that Ostheer need vehicles to attack in mid game and allies do not.

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 11:23 AMSkysTheLimit

And a p4 is not a premium, heavy, or super heavy. Yet you still compare them...

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 11:23 AMSkysTheLimit

Bullshit, soviets need t70. USF needs Stuart or FlakHT, and Brits usually need AEC. Would love to see you winning competitive match without building any vehicle until TDs

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 11:31 AMVipper

I did not compare the PzIV with heavies premium or super heavies. I simply pointed out that they outclass the PzIV

Jump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 11:31 AMVipper

As wish I will rephrase, Ostheer need mediums tank to attack more than allies do.