su76 need adjustments

The su76 doesn't need to have an always build role. As it stands it's a good emergency TD. It's got good pen and ROF and it's barrage means it isn't wasted when you get your proper AT out. It's semi niche but doesn't require a whole rework..
Make it deal 160 with vet and call it a day

No it is not even reliable if you use it as an emergency td.

120 damage means it need to deal 6 penertrated shot to kill a panzer 4, consider that its penertration has been lowered to 180/170/160 the shot may deflect if luck isn't with you.

Its rof was toned down long ago, now its reload time is 3.9-4.4 so it needs at least 24 seconds to fire enough shots to deal with single panzer 4 alone.

You may argue that su-76 can't be the only AT unit on field, then assume that there is already a zis. In a 10 second window both zis and su-76 can fire 2 shots, that is 560 damage in total, able to get a stug but not a ost panzer 4. So how can you call it "good emergency unit"? In the same senario double zis will definely perform better.

And fausted su-76 can be killed by 2 tank shots, 3 shots if not fausted. Does zis-3 die of 3 panzer4 shots?

If su-76 means to be good emergency unit, it will need a health buff or damage/rof buff. Health to 560 / vanilla damage to 160, since it lacks turret. Remove the barrage and make it a soviet stug then, but that is absolutely not the design philosophy of it.

No it is not even reliable if you use it as an emergency td.

120 damage means it need to deal 6 penertrated shot to kill a panzer 4, consider that its penertration has been lowered to 180/170/160 the shot may deflect if luck isn't with you.

Its rof was toned down long ago, now its reload time is 3.9-4.4 so it needs at least 24 seconds to fire enough shots to deal with single panzer 4 alone.

You may argue that su-76 can't be the only AT unit on field, then assume that there is already a zis. In a 10 second window both zis and su-76 can fire 2 shots, that is 560 damage in total, able to get a stug but not a ost panzer 4. So how can you call it "good emergency unit"? In the same senario double zis will definely perform better.

And fausted su-76 can be killed by 2 tank shots, 3 shots if not fausted. Does zis-3 die of 3 panzer4 shots?

If su-76 means to be good emergency unit, it will need a health buff or damage/rof buff. Health to 560 / vanilla damage to 160, since it lacks turret. Remove the barrage and make it a soviet stug then, but that is absolutely not the design philosophy of it.

Perhaps you need an emergency Jagdtiger?
Emergency doesn't mean it's going to be as effective as AT you can get at your leisure. It's mobile enough that you should be able to back away from incoming doom (unlike with say a zis) and once you weather the storm you can make use of its barrage. It's a multirole assault gun, if you can't make use of it for what it is that's unfortunate for you but the unit already has a role.

StuG clone.... Jeeze...

Perhaps you need an emergency Jagdtiger?
Emergency doesn't mean it's going to be as effective as AT you can get at your leisure. It's mobile enough that you should be able to back away from incoming doom (unlike with say a zis) and once you weather the storm you can make use of its barrage. It's a multirole assault gun, if you can't make use of it for what it is that's unfortunate for you but the unit already has a role.

StuG clone.... Jeeze...

OK we dont hold the same opinion on "emergencey". Yes it is multirole vehcle, but in current state it is more like "jack of all trades master of none". Not an effective at option, meanwhile has a barrage recharging time of 80s which is longer than a howitzer.

Make the barrage a zis version copy, then I would say its fine, being a okayish at and nice barrage.

OK we dont hold the same opinion on "emergencey". Yes it is multirole vehcle, but in current state it is more like "jack of all trades master of none". Not an effective at option, meanwhile has a barrage recharging time of 80s which is longer than a howitzer.

Make the barrage a zis version copy, then I would say its fine, being a okayish at and nice barrage.

Pretty sure the barrage on the Zis-3 is the same as on the SU-76.....

If the SU-76 needs a buff it could just be in the form of a cost reduction to its fuel price making it even more affordable as a supplementary AT platform to back up a T-34 or T-70 when you can’t afford or don’t want an SU-85 and also more affordable as an emergency AT solution if you skipped Tier 2.

but in current state it is more like "jack of all trades master of none"

That is mainly the SU whole faction design. cost efficient Versatility.
If the axis player is massing indirect fire (Pwerfer, mortars, Wstukas, leFh) instead of getting a Zis, you can simply get a Su76 for a little extra price. A fuel cost decrease should help to solidify this function.
Su76 can not be a stug clone, because that a whole different faction, different design, different relative costs.
Imagine the other way around, if stugs could barrage and were cheaper (but weaker), it would block allied armor and also infantry, that a lot of versatility that OST might need, yet they get a great medium TD with vet abilities focused on AT, stugs are not even used because allied factions rush for heavier tanks. Each faction gets balanced with advantages/restrictions.

Pretty sure the barrage on the Zis-3 is the same as on the SU-76.....

If the SU-76 needs a buff it could just be in the form of a cost reduction to its fuel price making it even more affordable as a supplementary AT platform to back up a T-34 or T-70 when you can’t afford or don’t want an SU-85 and also more affordable as an emergency AT solution if you skipped Tier 2.

Damage stats and prices are the same, different in shells fired, max range and ability recharging time. Zis-3 fires 4 shots with 30s recharge and 60 max range, and su-76 fires 6 shots with 80s recharing time and 80 max range.

I don't think su-76 barrage has to have a max range like a mortar, it could be decreased, but the 80s recharge is just insane.

That is mainly the SU whole faction design. cost efficient Versatility.
If the axis player is massing indirect fire (Pwerfer, mortars, Wstukas, leFh) instead of getting a Zis, you can simply get a Su76 for a little extra price. A fuel cost decrease should help to solidify this function.
Su76 can not be a stug clone, because that a whole different faction, different design, different relative costs.
Imagine the other way around, if stugs could barrage and were cheaper (but weaker), it would block allied armor and also infantry, that a lot of versatility that OST might need, yet they get a great medium TD with vet abilities focused on AT, stugs are not even used because allied factions rush for heavier tanks. Each faction gets balanced with advantages/restrictions.

I enjoy su faction because their units always have multiple use, just as what your post suggests, so I don't want it to be stug clones. But in current state su-76 is hardly used due to its limited AT damage and superlong barrage recharging time.

That why I think it needs adjustments, either increase its AT firepower through vet, like 160 damage with vet3 or make its barrage more handly, fewer shots, lower range but relatively shot recharge time.

Pretty sure the barrage on the Zis-3 is the same as on the SU-76.....

If the SU-76 needs a buff it could just be in the form of a cost reduction to its fuel price making it even more affordable as a supplementary AT platform to back up a T-34 or T-70 when you can’t afford or don’t want an SU-85 and also more affordable as an emergency AT solution if you skipped Tier 2.

It's not. ZIS-3 barrage is 30 seconds, SU-76 is 80 seconds.

The SU-76 should get 140 base damage for its gun and retain the +20 from vet. Alternatively lose the damage vet and give it 160 damage at start. And the cooldown on the barrage should be changed to 45. No price adjustments necessary as unit is overpriced as it is.

It's not. ZIS-3 barrage is 30 seconds, SU-76 is 80 seconds.

The SU-76 should get 140 base damage for its gun and retain the +20 from vet. Alternatively lose the damage vet and give it 160 damage at start. And the cooldown on the barrage should be changed to 45. No price adjustments necessary as unit is overpriced as it is.

The unit is not over priced it is cost effective. As ?I point out it has more DPS than Puma vs meduims.

When it comes to barrage the units get 3 buffs:
25% barrage recharge, +16.7% damage
+11.1% barrage range
Worth noting is low XP value of the unit that allow it vet too fast.

it also has access to tracking that allows the barrage to target units in the mini map.

...
120 damage means it need to deal 6 penertrated shot to kill a panzer 4, consider that its penertration has been lowered to 180/170/160 the shot may deflect if luck isn't with you.

Its rof was toned down long ago, now its reload time is 3.9-4.4 so it needs at least 24 seconds to fire enough shots to deal with single panzer 4 alone.
....

It's penetration may have been lowered but its accuracy and rotation was buffed.

It ROF was lowered in the same patch the Stug-G ROF was also lowered.

A singe Su-76 with 20 range advantage over a PzIV should not be able to shut down it while it costs allot less.

I point out it has more DPS than Puma vs meduims.

Silly statement. Not even on paper Puma has less DPS. It depends on RNG. Puma shoots way faster (more than 1 second less reload) but has less penetration.

In actual game situations, Puma is 10x better than SU76 for obvious reasons (mobility, stun shot, turret, extra sight).

I can't believe people who play this game say stuff like SU 76 is better than Puma. It's like they are living in an alternate reality. Su76 is a horrible vehicle and that's why it isn't used at all.

Silly statement. Not even on paper Puma has less DPS. It depends on RNG. Puma shoots way faster (more than 1 second less reload) but has less penetration.

In actual game situations, Puma is 10x better than SU76 for obvious reasons (mobility, stun shot, turret, extra sight).

I can't believe people who play this game say stuff like SU 76 is better than Puma. It's like they are living in an alternate reality. Su76 is a horrible vehicle and that's why it isn't used at all.

I provided that stat you can check them out they are accurate.

PLS do not put words in my mouth I did not say Puma is better than SU-76 I said it has more DPS vs mediums at range 50. Su-76 has been presented as if it can not be used against T3 units when this hardly the case. SU-76 can cost effectively counter T3 vehicles.

I provided that stat you can check them out they are accurate.

PLS do not put words in my mouth I did not say Puma is better than SU-76 I said it has more DPS vs mediums at range 50.

???

SU 76 reload: 5.275 at vet 3: 4.38
Puma reload: 4.1 at vet 5: 2.62

SU 76 damage: 120, with vet 140
Puma damage: 120, with vet 160

???

???

SU 76 reload: 5.275 at vet 3: 4.38
Puma reload: 4.1 at vet 5: 2.62

SU 76 damage: 120, with vet 140
Puma damage: 120, with vet 160

???

Check post 35 calculation are done by the the game's DPS file.

Regardless of reload Puma has less than half the penetration of the SU-76

In addition SU-76 get damage at vet 2 while Puma at vet 3 and the SU-76 vets faster.

I provided that stat you can check them out they are accurate.

PLS do not put words in my mouth I did not say Puma is better than SU-76 I said it has more DPS vs mediums at range 50. Su-76 has been presented as if it can not be used against T3 units when this hardly the case. SU-76 can cost effectively counter T3 vehicles.

SU 76 doesn't cost-effectively counter anything. Guess why no one uses it? As I said, on paper SU76 is ok but in actual game situations it's complete shit on everything but the most open maps. It has no gun traverse which makes pathing a nightmare. It constantly has to rotate. This makes it very vulnerable to getting fausted by infantry or dived by 222s, Luchs and Puma. Just not a viable unit when Zis3 is better.

Check post 35 calculation are done by the the game's DPS file.

Regardless of reload Puma has less than half the penetration of the SU-76

In addition SU-76 get damage at vet 2 while Puma at vet 3 and the SU-76 vets faster.

So you just ignore slower reload and less damage because you made a calculation that proves your point?

Puma is 10x better vs mediums than SU76. Puma has extra sight and the range to just kite medium tanks non-stop. In addition to that it has vet 1 stun shot. If you ignore this just because SU 76 has more penetration you are just biased and don't understand this games. Puma is used all the time for a reason. Meanwhile SU 76 sits in a corner and cries because it gets bullied by 222s.

So you just ignore slower reload and less damage because you made a calculation that proves your point?

You stated that:

Silly statement. Not even on paper Puma has less DPS. It depends on RNG. Puma shoots way faster (more than 1 second less reload) but has less penetration.
...

I have actually done the DPS calculation and proven you wrong, so I have not ignored anything. PLS stop trolling and simply admit that you claim was wrong.

You stated that:

I have actually done the DPS calculation and proven you wrong, so I have not ignored anything. PLS stop trolling and simply admit that you claim was wrong.

SU 76 has less damage and slower reload so no I wasn't wrong. For me DPS is damage per shot/reload. If you want to factor in armour that is your choice.

I don't trust any calculation which involves accuracy, unless you think the TTK between a Stug and Churchill is the same (it isn't, not by a long shot).

Better put them up against a 1 million HP medium tank at max range and see who wins first.

It's penetration may have been lowered but its accuracy and rotation was buffed.

It ROF was lowered in the same patch the Stug-G ROF was also lowered.

A singe Su-76 with 20 range advantage over a PzIV should not be able to shut down it while it costs allot less.

A single su-76 can't even repel a panzer4. Allied mediums won't get a stug by directly charging at it, but with a panzer4 charging at a su76, if the player failed to snare pz4 and reverse in time, then su76 is detroyed. The axis player could kill su-76 by exchanging shots since su-76 has low hp.

And without a turret the terrible tracking system makes su-76 even harder to evade.

I can't agree with your opinion that current vanilla su-76 can hold off wehr t3 mediums. If that's the case, those good 1v1 players won't go straight for 2 zis guns when his opponent rush for ostwind.