so a consctript question

so every other faction in the game has a form or weapon upgrade for their stock units. wheather it be upgrade behind a teck or weapon rack.

but not conscripts.

some units have a form of a nade behind a teck but get tank snare with it or comes with vet.

but not constripts


so they can get a 7th man.. wel u say they get 80 ho more and a guy more so thats x amout of dps more.. maby they also are larger so more easy to hit with aoe weapons, harder to get full squad in green cover so easyer to suppres and pin. and they cant pick up weapons becuz 7 man cant pick more up then other 4 or 5 man squad right.

the upside for 7th man has a great ( maby greater?) downside. also wile moest units can be upgrades around 3 cp timing wise.. this cons upgrade is avalible way later in the game. the fact you can get it befor you build tier 4 HINDERS u alot as the upgrade cost 25 fuel! thats like building your tier for 2 a 3 min later just for a 7th man.


if al this is needed for 7th man. either they can pick up a gun or it only needs invest ment in the moli and at nade.

its not like u have 200 ammo withing 7 min of the game and able to upgrade 4 squads to 7.

what u al think

Lol the 7th man upgrade is one of the best upgrade there is, that why it’s locked so late

Not only is 1 extra man so u can take 2 team weapons

It gives bonus cd on cover (that at 50% like in previews patch it BEATS gren with lmg at long range)

It gives extra experience and reduced reinforce cost and time

All on a squad with very good vet

Btw it’s free at tier 4, this tell us how much u actually use cons

what is the question again?

Lol the 7th man upgrade is one of the best upgrade there is, that why it’s locked so late

Not only is 1 extra man so u can take 2 team weapons

It gives bonus cd on cover (that at 50% like in previews patch it BEATS gren with lmg at long range)

It gives extra experience and reduced reinforce cost and time

All on a squad with very good vet

Btw it’s free at tier 4, this tell us how much u actually use cons

takeing 2 weapons teams sure its fine but not that amazing.

with brit you see the icon on the picture u get the bonus but i havent seen anyting on cons yet. i also cant realy see a diffrence compare to 6 man

by the time you get t4 ( and yes i know its free in t4) your cons sould already be close to vet 3. and yes its helps a bit when u buy new squads but it isst a huge diffrance. they wil have hard time anway vs vetted enemies

takeing 2 weapons teams sure its fine but not that amazing.

with brit you see the icon on the picture u get the bonus but i havent seen anyting on cons yet. i also cant realy see a diffrence compare to 6 man

by the time you get t4 ( and yes i know its free in t4) your cons sould already be close to vet 3. and yes its helps a bit when u buy new squads but it isst a huge diffrance. they wil have hard time anway vs vetted enemies

considering they have merge I say yes us good, y can get an at gun immediately merge and retreat the 1 men back

They have sword on the shield for cover , try and look for once

That does not change the bonus it gives

U can pick up 2-team weapons with 7-man cons and merge like crazy, theyre equalish with Grens with LMG-42 upgrade and have much more utility than Grens with molly/AT nade if u decide to go that route and Oorah.
And u get all the bonuses like exp that lets you just rebuild cons and throw some ammo to vet them fast again if u lose them.

On top of that PPSH upgrade got lowered to 2cp didnt it, just use that.
And yeah of course u can just use hit the dirt with 7-man cons too.
7-man cons is fine

7 man cons are fine imo... but if youre using a T2 build i feel your pain pretty well... the horrible performance of 2/3 of the T2 units that plus the lackluster earlygame performance of conscripts means that it takes significant outplaying against the opponent just to make the build work

in truth this is more of a T2 sucks like balls and stock cons being a bit meh issue as opposed to a 7 man cons being lacking issue...

7 man cons are fine imo... but if youre using a T2 build i feel your pain pretty well... the horrible performance of 2/3 of the T2 units that plus the lackluster earlygame performance of conscripts means that it takes significant outplaying against the opponent just to make the build work

in truth this is more of a T2 sucks like balls and stock cons being a bit meh issue as opposed to a 7 man cons being lacking issue...

Slightly cheaper cons could help offset the shitty t2 though via map control and controlling the map (in theory)

Need to find a way that cons are good with any unit, but not great by themselves so that they can synergies with both t1 and t2 instead of being late game only infantrym

Slightly cheaper cons could help offset the shitty t2 though via map control and controlling the map (in theory)

Need to find a way that cons are good with any unit, but not great by themselves so that they can synergies with both t1 and t2 instead of being late game only infantrym

tbh i like the assault maxim concept more soo that the maxim can be the "teeth" that conscripts need to deal damage but without the suppression

so every other faction in the game has a form or weapon upgrade for their stock units. wheather it be upgrade behind a teck or weapon rack.
.........
what u al think

I used to think cons sucked until I started using them a lot. Now I don't mind them so much, particularly with the 7th man. I don't think they could improve them a lot without badly altering balance. They're really cheap to reinforce. This really helps late game in 4v4's when artillery starts firing.

I do think the doctrinal weapon upgrades should lock out the 7th man. I think Mobilize Reserves is fine as is, and am glad the balance team set it up the way they did.

The only improvements that I would ask for are:
1) Move part (maybe 10%) of the RA from Vet 3 to Vet 1. This would help them when other infantry is getting their weapon upgrades and get their RA down to about 1.0.
2) Allow them to pick up 1 weapon (of any type) and still Mobilize Reserves. Any weapon that they pick up should have about 60-75% of its normal accuracy.
3) It seems like it takes a long time to throw a molotov. I may just be imagining this but they seem worse in terms of time and range than other infantry. It could be that rifle grenades just have longer range so they start right away while cons have to move. In either case, it seems like it could use some improvement.

The only improvements that I would ask for are:
1) Move part (maybe 10%) of the RA from Vet 3 to Vet 1. This would help them when other infantry is getting their weapon upgrades and get their RA down to about 1.0.
2) Allow them to pick up 1 weapon (of any type) and still Mobilize Reserves. Any weapon that they pick up should have about 60-75% of its normal accuracy.
3) It seems like it takes a long time to throw a molotov. I may just be imagining this but they seem worse in terms of time and range than other infantry. It could be that rifle grenades just have longer range so they start right away while cons have to move. In either case, it seems like it could use some improvement.

1. Conscripts already get around 10% lower RA at veterancy 1, that was a change from some time ago.

2. Mobilized Reserves is really strong and doesn't need any more buffs IMO. The cover bonus + cheaper reinforcement + 7th men is three improvements to efficiency, making it very hard to trade efficiently with a Conscript player in the lategame.

3. The time till impact of Molotovs is the same as the incendiary grenade with long animation time vs nade timer trade-off. Problem is that the Conscript model has to expose itself for longer, which is especially crucial against MG's. Volks can just chuck their nade and immediately move back to cover. At veterancy 2, the Molotov has much faster impact than the incendiary nade.

1. Conscripts already get around 10% lower RA at veterancy 1, that was a change from some time ago.

2. Mobilized Reserves is really strong and doesn't need any more buffs IMO. The cover bonus + cheaper reinforcement + 7th men is three improvements to efficiency, making it very hard to trade efficiently with a Conscript player in the lategame.

3. The time till impact of Molotovs is the same as the incendiary grenade with long animation time vs nade timer trade-off. Problem is that the Conscript model has to expose itself for longer, which is especially crucial against MG's. Volks can just chuck their nade and immediately move back to cover. At veterancy 2, the Molotov has much faster impact than the incendiary nade.

A big thing for the molotov is also its range which compounds with the long throw and the long throw compounds further when the model dies 7 years into the throw and has to restart on a new model.


As for mobilized reserves, I think if the parts were split up and applied throughout the teching it would be better for con balance. The overall is quite good, but it also comes stupid late meaning you won't benifit from it like weapon upgrades.
If you took apart the cover bonus and reinforcement / exp buffs and made them separate entries you could have the 7th man sooner and it would lessen the drag caused by actually using cons before t4

1. Conscripts already get around 10% lower RA at veterancy 1, that was a change from some time ago.

2. Mobilized Reserves is really strong and doesn't need any more buffs IMO. The cover bonus + cheaper reinforcement + 7th men is three improvements to efficiency, making it very hard to trade efficiently with a Conscript player in the lategame.

3. The time till impact of Molotovs is the same as the incendiary grenade with long animation time vs nade timer trade-off. Problem is that the Conscript model has to expose itself for longer, which is especially crucial against MG's. Volks can just chuck their nade and immediately move back to cover. At veterancy 2, the Molotov has much faster impact than the incendiary nade.

1) Thanks, didn't realize. Is there some place that has updated veterancy guide? Cons still seem really squishy at Vet 1, especially when they end up going against a Gren that now has a LMG. It's much easier to notice the change from Vet 2 to Vet 3.

2) I do really like them late game now. The problem is just getting there. I now sometimes skip making anything in T3 in 4v4's due to the efficiency game (especially if a T70 would be late or nothing for the lackluster SU76 to counter).

3) It might just be the exposure time that you pointed out that makes the Molotov's so frustrating. That exposure time sometimes seems to make the difference between throwing the Molotov and getting pinned.

1) Thanks, didn't realize. Is there some place that has updated veterancy guide? Cons still seem really squishy at Vet 1, especially when they end up going against a Gren that now has a LMG. It's much easier to notice the change from Vet 2 to Vet 3.

2) I do really like them late game now. The problem is just getting there. I now sometimes skip making anything in T3 in 4v4's due to the efficiency game (especially if a T70 would be late or nothing for the lackluster SU76 to counter).

3) It might just be the exposure time that you pointed out that makes the Molotov's so frustrating. That exposure time sometimes seems to make the difference between throwing the Molotov and getting pinned.

Your best bet for an updated veterancy guide is to install harold's numeral veterancy mod, it shows the actual bonusses units get when hovering your mouse over the veterancy stars:

https://www.coh2.org/topic/96564/updated-numeric-veterancy-mod-english

Didn't notice you play big team games, that does tend to limit the usefulness of things like molotovs and light vehicles, because AT and suppression weapons are much more concentrated there. OKW's incendiary nade has a bit more range which helps it in that regard. Just make sure to use molotovs defensively until vet 2, because throwing one is generally not worth getting shot on, except versus hmg's. Stay behind heavy cover and throw when the enemy closes in.

I think the problem is with the 7th man upgrade is that I comes to late compared to the other weapon upgrades. This is bad because with cons you are always paying a game of catch-up with axis infantry that you can never win unless you get a lucky early wipe. I think spreading out the bonuses over the several tiers to make the increase in power more consistent. Something like:

Tier 2: hit the ground
Tier 3: cover bonus
Tier 4: extra man

For 20 muni per tier per squad.

Problem with cons that they can be somehow effective only in green cover. It will be much easier, if useless flare mine, was replaced be fasten sandbags building. Even if it will be cost muni like flare, it will help cons more.

In fact i think each mainline should have normal vet1 abilities, now in game only penals and rifles have good vet1 abilities (LastMan and At-nade). Because for example grens and cons, you could just wipe 1-st star and nothing changes.
Grens for example could get some ability that show them as good trained troops, when they got they MG-42 upgrade - like "Intensive fire" - ability similar to centaur, you could use it to deal damage to big groups of infantry or try to wipe retreat unit.
While cons could have fasten sandbags to get cover, even if fasten sandbag will be more squishy than regular, it will get them more and reflect them as in description "good when stay in cover".

The vet 1 received accuracy bonus for conscripts needs to be moved to vet 0.

I'm actually fine with the higher than average target size at vet 0 as it makes merge a bit less easy of an action. Your con models will always be a bit easier to hit than your regular models so you are trading immediate reinforcement and lower reinforcement costs for slightly higher bleed. I think their durability improvements could be more linear though (a bit with each and every level)

I reckon con molotov throw time should be somewhat decreased, not as fast as a volks flame nade but a bit faster would be great