Obers arriving earlier

260MP 6-man squad sounds too strong to me.

(I know they are shit but cons are 240 and don't have a 160mp unlock fee)

260MP 6-man squad sounds too strong to me.

You'll probably lose your head when you'll hear about 240 and 200mp 6-man squads, the cheaper one even coming with its own LMG in mid to late game without any additional fuel investments.

You'll probably lose your head when you'll hear about 240 and 200mp 6-man squads, the cheaper one even coming with its own LMG in mid to late game without any additional fuel investments.

Are you torlling? 260MP Penals have significant advantages over the cheaper 6-man squads.

260MP Penals comparing to Cons:
20 more MP for 2 or 3 SVT is too cost-effective.

260MP Penals comparing to Osttruppen:
The later has 1.25 target size, they die like flies in mid-late game.

260MP 6-man squad sounds too strong to me.

cons are 6 men 240, they would be cons without increase target size and 2-3 base stv , if 260 is too low try 270

Are you torlling? 260MP Penals have significant advantages over the cheaper 6-man squads.

260MP Penals comparing to Cons:
20 more MP for 2 or 3 SVT is too cost-effective.

260MP Penals comparing to Osttruppen:
The later has 1.25 target size, they die like flies in mid-late game.

And why exactly are you comparing then to ostroppen? The absolute only thing they have in common is squad size. That's literally it.
Can you compare shocks and ostroppen next? Or maybe Obers and partisans?
Oh oh oh what about rangers and 5 man pios?

Are you torlling? 260MP Penals have significant advantages over the cheaper 6-man squads.

They are also much more expensive.

260MP Penals comparing to Cons:
20 more MP for 2 or 3 SVT is too cost-effective.

Why?
Compare the difference between grens and volks for 10mp alone(currently).
Its perfectly reasonable in context of price to performance relations between other squads.

260MP Penals comparing to Osttruppen:
The later has 1.25 target size, they die like flies in mid-late game.

And they are as cheap and numerous as flies.
Their scaling also makes them very durable later on.

Compare the difference between grens and volks for 10mp alone(currently).
Its perfectly reasonable in context of price to performance relations between other squads.

really wrong comparison, green and volks have about same dps for total squad

try cav rfiel and normal rifle

really wrong comparison, green and volks have about same dps for total squad

try cav rfiel and normal rifle

Exactly.
They have same DPS, but differ in durability.
Cav rifles vs normal ones are 2 different archetypes.

i like the acting: muh cons are sooo bad and cant do anything. This is totally wrong. Get the right commander and they even push back the best german infantery or armor. no need to make the better or act like they are crap.

they are really good with springt, vet, commanders, and many abiltys and high surviving. and this for a CHEAP pricetag.

Exactly.
They have same DPS, but differ in durability.
Cav rifles vs normal ones are 2 different archetypes.

we have the opposite here, they have better dura and better dps

And why exactly are you comparing then to ostroppen? The absolute only thing they have in common is squad size. That's literally it.
Can you compare shocks and ostroppen next? Or maybe Obers and partisans?
Oh oh oh what about rangers and 5 man pios?

Another user started the comparison. Now does this has any relevance to Obers and their timing?

cons are 6 men 240, they would be cons without increase target size and 2-3 base stv , if 260 is too low try 270

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

Updates for March 6th, 2014

Cost from 360 MP to 270 MP
Population from 9 to 7

Fast forward

June 21st 2016

Squad cost increased to 300 manpower from 270 manpower

You can't just mirror units when their circumstances are completely different. If your faction starts with the weakest engineer (we'll see how 4 man Cons will be now), the lowest amount of mp and it has to waste time building and more mp to get tech to get a unit out, it's not gonna ever see use.

1-But they will get "scary" with +2/+4 SVT.
They were not scary when they had easier to obtain and better vet on top of having one of the strongest weapon, a flamer with Oorah.

2-They are the only non doctrinal AI option they have if you don't choose snipers (not sure if maxim will ever be as good as before).
Then it's either gonna be snipers or clowncars. We might add Conscripts upgrade depending on what timing MOD team decides for them.
Adendum: and who cares for non doctrinal options. You'll just go back to depend on Guards/Shocks/PPSH. If those are not competitive then people will play USF/UKF.

3-So the only option is to leave them as they are?
NO. You can put speedbumps, it's a matter of knowing when and where to put them. I've said it before, make them pay to unlock their muni upgrades and abilities. This means it's not more fuel effective to go for Penals than going for Conscripts. Same if we talk mp wise. Make the transition between countering light vehicles and getting your T70 harder.


If you want to implement something new, do something which hasn't been tried before and failed.

....
If you want to implement something new, do something which hasn't been tried before and failed.

The conclusion that Penal design was failed is rather arbitrary especially since the game in nowhere near to what it was.

The current Penal design is simply bad and need to change.

And we have made several different suggestions on how it can change and we can make even more at the a hint that Penal are going to be touched.

Now does this have anything to do with Obers?

they would still get the other stv , they just have to pay muni for it like 40 mun for 4-3 stv and get locked out of ptrs

Now does this have anything to do with Obers?

The moment OP left the thread and you brought the topic back at post #19 and all other discussing the new topic.

they would still get the other stv , they just have to pay muni for it like 40 mun for 4-3 stv and get locked out of ptrs

And that doesn't address the points i mentioned before.

Get the right commander

And this is where your argument falls apart and becomes irrelevant.

Tbh i think everything that can be discussed about Obers has been discussed in the thread. It obviously caused quite a divide.

If people want to talk about Penals being OP or Conscript builds being unviable, you can do that in other threads. I'd let this thread die in peace now.

Actually, the only right way to solve obers arriving too late is simply nerfing al assault infantries, including penals, IS and riflemen.

The current earlygame causes too much MP bleed, so much is a viable strategy in 1v1s. Too much early game aggressivity also gives a lot of XP and veterancy, by the time Obers can enter the battlefield they are already being haunted by vet3 infantry, big AoE explosions and medium tanks.

Actually, the only right way to solve obers arriving too late is simply nerfing al assault infantries, including penals, IS and riflemen.

The current earlygame causes too much MP bleed, so much is a viable strategy in 1v1s. Too much early game aggressivity also gives a lot of XP and veterancy, by the time Obers can enter the battlefield they are already being haunted by vet3 infantry, big AoE explosions and medium tanks.

HMG34 is a thing.

@Katitof Sure it is, maybe the problem is the unit itself, its out of place, if obers were doctrinal maybe they could be fielded in a reasonable timing with a coherent cost. Maybe im overthinking it too much...