Here's something i have been thinking about.
I am currently in the opinion that Obers arrive too late to make any serious impact in a match. After all, getting the Schwer HQ up takes quite alot of time and resources. Although this is supposedly compensated with a powerfull anti- infantry squad, by the time you have Obers on the field you will undoubtedly face cheaper and vetted allied infantry.
After witnessing the balance team putting Wehr Panzergrenadiers in T0 after BP1 is unlocked, i'd figure that a similiar suggestion could make Obers a more interesting choice, aswell as giving them a earlier window to operate in:
- Put Obers in T0(starting HQ truck); requires 1 truck to be deployed AND set up before they can be called in
- Their LMG upgrade requires a 2nd truck deployed and set up before it can be bought; IR STG44's are excluded and can be bought once the CP requirement is met
I'm not a pro player by any means, so there may be issues with this that i am not aware of. Sharing your opinion and critique will help shape a better suggestion. Alternatively, the entire idea could be dumped in the garbage bin if no one in the balance team actually thinks of this as a interesting suggestion.
Obers arriving earlier
- This thread is locked
1 Sep 2019, 17:12 PM
#1
Posts: 249
1 Sep 2019, 17:18 PM
#2
Posts: 261
I do think move Obers to T0 is viable as long as we lock their LMG.
开弓没有回头箭。
1 Sep 2019, 17:28 PM
#3
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Okw already have alot of things in their T0, move ober to T0 is "possible", but their performance need to be careful looked in, with med and merch rush, ober can have lmg a lot earlier than now, combined with vet gained for being on the fiel up to that point, they can be very dominant. At the same time something have to move out of T0.
1 Sep 2019, 17:43 PM
#4
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I would rather see all powerful infantry arrive later than earlier.
Allowing players to invest in expensive powerful units early make early engagement toο decisive for the outcome of the game.
Allowing players to invest in expensive powerful units early make early engagement toο decisive for the outcome of the game.
1 Sep 2019, 17:59 PM
#5
Posts: 1979
You already have the most cost efficient and bleed efficient mainline and now youre asking for earlier elite infantry??
1 Sep 2019, 18:27 PM
#6
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
The direction the patch is taking is enough. They come out with the first half of the t4
I dont think you'll want to spend the MP on them after 1 truck. They're not really cost effective without their LMGs, so even the patches change is kind of weird
Would be interesting if they buffed default performance and nerfed the lmg upgrade/made it cheaper. So it was less of no brainer/necessity
I dont think you'll want to spend the MP on them after 1 truck. They're not really cost effective without their LMGs, so even the patches change is kind of weird
Would be interesting if they buffed default performance and nerfed the lmg upgrade/made it cheaper. So it was less of no brainer/necessity
1 Sep 2019, 18:32 PM
#7
Posts: 3260
Early Obers are an interesting idea: they're apparently about on par with Penals without their rifles.
The biggest balance concern is this gives them more time to vet up, so Vet 2 LMG Obers (the point where they become serious business) hit the field sooner.
That may be offset by the brutal manpower bleed they inflict though.
Could be worth a try.
The biggest balance concern is this gives them more time to vet up, so Vet 2 LMG Obers (the point where they become serious business) hit the field sooner.
That may be offset by the brutal manpower bleed they inflict though.
Could be worth a try.
1 Sep 2019, 19:50 PM
#8
Posts: 32
I don't see the problem while the mg34 is locked after a second truck.
I would like to see obers in t0 even for a change and not always use volks
I would like to see obers in t0 even for a change and not always use volks
Los infantes españoles prefieren la muerte a la deshonra Ya hablaremos de capitulación después de muertos” Francisco Arias de Bobadilla
ostheer
okw
ostheerokw
1 Sep 2019, 19:54 PM
#9
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
Early Obers are an interesting idea: they're apparently about on par with Penals without their rifles.
Stock Obers at range 30 they have 17,2 DPS with (4x80/0.7=) 457 effective hitpoints.
Penals at range 30 have 13,1 DPS with (6x80/1=) 480 effective hitpoints.
I think people in general underestimate how powerful stock Obers already are, just because right now they come at a time when they usually have to face vet 2-3 double upgraded infantry and an onslaught of vehicles. At their new SPHQ 60 fuel timing, against vet 1-2 and 1 upgrade infantry, they should be very good when used defensively. They don't have the weakness of having to close in like Panzergrenadiers to deal their DPS so imo even without the upgrades they are not T0+ material.
1 Sep 2019, 19:59 PM
#10
Posts: 32
Stock Obers at range 30 they have 17,2 DPS with (4x80/0.7=) 457 effective hitpoints.
Penals at range 30 have 13,1 DPS with (6x80/1=) 480 effective hitpoints.
I think people in general underestimate how powerful stock Obers already are, just because right now they come at a time when they usually have to face vet 2-3 double upgraded infantry and an onslaught of vehicles. At their new SPHQ 60 fuel timing, against vet 1-2 and 1 upgrade infantry, they should be very good when used defensively. They don't have the weakness of having to close in like Panzergrenadiers to deal their DPS so imo even without the upgrades they are not T0+ material.
In part you are right, but I would like it to be tested in the mod, if they are too effective, then continue as they are
Los infantes españoles prefieren la muerte a la deshonra Ya hablaremos de capitulación después de muertos” Francisco Arias de Bobadilla
ostheerokw
ostheerokw
1 Sep 2019, 20:45 PM
#11
Posts: 268
I don't see the problem while the mg34 is locked after a second truck.
I would like to see obers in t0 even for a change and not always use volks
Then I also want to see paratroopers in t0, or ranger for USF.
Driver, let's get this show on the road.
1 Sep 2019, 21:22 PM
#12
Posts: 19
Permanently BannedI don't see the problem while the mg34 is locked after a second truck.
I would like to see obers in t0 even for a change and not always use volks
Play another faction then.
I'd like to not always use IS but I'm not asking for t0 Commandos
1 Sep 2019, 22:51 PM
#13
Posts: 810
put him in medic truck
not HQ
not HQ
1 Sep 2019, 23:15 PM
#14
Posts: 32
Then I also want to see paratroopers in t0, or ranger for USF.
comparing 2 cp with Schwerer Panzer HQ ...
tier 0 with 2 trucks deployed,
You should understand what you read first.
I think I made the truth very clear, it will be that my English is bad.
by the way game with all the features especially with ukf
Los infantes españoles prefieren la muerte a la deshonra Ya hablaremos de capitulación después de muertos” Francisco Arias de Bobadilla
ostheerokw
ostheerokw
1 Sep 2019, 23:18 PM
#15
Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedI think the patch changes are sufficient. Maybe to help with veterancy, let obers spawn from the medic HQ and lock the lmg behind flak HQ.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."
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1 Sep 2019, 23:42 PM
#16
Posts: 268
comparing 2 cp with Schwerer Panzer HQ ...
tier 0 with 2 trucks deployed,
You should understand what you read first.
I think I made the truth very clear, it will be that my English is bad.
by the way game with all the features especially with ukf
3 cp
Driver, let's get this show on the road.
2 Sep 2019, 11:19 AM
#17
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Stock Obers at range 30 they have 17,2 DPS with (4x80/0.7=) 457 effective hitpoints.
Penals at range 30 have 13,1 DPS with (6x80/1=) 480 effective hitpoints.
I think people in general underestimate how powerful stock Obers already are, just because right now they come at a time when they usually have to face vet 2-3 double upgraded infantry and an onslaught of vehicles. At their new SPHQ 60 fuel timing, against vet 1-2 and 1 upgrade infantry, they should be very good when used defensively. They don't have the weakness of having to close in like Panzergrenadiers to deal their DPS so imo even without the upgrades they are not T0+ material.
Obers are also more expensive than Penal and have more pop. At 340 manpower they are UP for cost compared to Penals, according to the stat you have provided.
Obers become only cost efficient once upgunned.
(This is actually a issues with Penal being op. They should actually be around the some price with PF and have to pay for SVT upgrade)
2 Sep 2019, 11:42 AM
#18
Posts: 249
You already have the most cost efficient and bleed efficient mainline and now youre asking for earlier elite infantry??
Volks are being adressed in the patch, so i leave them out of this discussion.
I would rather see all powerful infantry arrive later than earlier.
Allowing players to invest in expensive powerful units early make early engagement toο decisive for the outcome of the game.
I disagree with this, for the following reason:
In my suggestion and poll, Obers arrive at the time most LV play tends to begin. LV's counter Obers. Sure, OKW can get Raketenwerfers, panzershrecks and even panzerfausts be4 things like the Stuart, the AEC or even the T70 start rolling in, but Obers are still in a precarious situation if they ever face LV's without proper support(which goes for any anti- infantry unit, like Shock and Para's).
If people are concerned about their impact on the realy phases of the game, we can nerf their stats to be more forgiving in the early game, and letting them snowball a bit more in the mid- to late game to regain these stats(aka, using them correctly and letting them vet up before they can get their almighty LMG34).
Things like Received accuracy and starting DPS of their Kar98's can be spread out over their veterancy bonusses. I think that concerns of them outclassing Penals etc in the early game can be largely adressed this way.
Alternatively, one could lock their bundled grenade and boobytrap ability behind a 2nd deployed truck, but i am not a fan of that idea.
Once again, i am not perfect. Obers are obviously a minor thing for the balance team right now, but i still like to discuss about them as i currently don't have any reason to buy them. I usually have 3 to 4 vetted volks for proper AI, and OKW has more potent, cheaper, earlier and durable alternatives than Obers when it comes to dealing with infantry.
How would we give Obers proper relevance?
2 Sep 2019, 11:50 AM
#19
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
...
How would we give Obers proper relevance?
By delaying all other expensive hard hitting infatry so that all of them arrive at a similar time.
The pace of small arm fire should be give by mainline infatry and their weapon upgrades. Specifically one should follow the progress of grenadiers.
If other infatry are to be available earlier they should come at similar power level with the mainline infatry and have weapon upgrades available.
G43 PF are a good example of how alternative infatry should be designed, their main current problem is that even when upgraded they are the same power level with Penal.
Imo Penal had to buy their SVT also the game would be in far better place.
2 Sep 2019, 13:11 PM
#20
Posts: 47
Now that Hetzer is also locked to Panzer Authorization the truck setup could be lowered to 20-40 fuel. That could be a decent timing.
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