Obers arriving earlier

LOL do you realize OKW infantry already out classes everyone elses at the start?

How do they compare against a squad of paratrooper with LMG?
Since they arrive later right now it make sence that they would be stronger.
If not make them eithier stronger or arrive at the same time..

How do they compare against a squad of paratrooper with LMG?
Since they arrive later right now it make sence that they would be stronger.
If not make them eithier stronger or arrive at the same time..

Katiusha and Panzerwerfer arrive MUCH later then stuka.
Neither of them is stronger.

Im dead honest here, if volks keep being so good, early obers is just unnecessary.
If volks change their kar98 for MP40s then you get 2 options, volks rush or obers turtle.

Katiusha and Panzerwerfer arrive MUCH later then stuka.
Neither of them is stronger.

Kat and Werfer are stronger at destroying blobs of inf.

Kat and Werfer are stronger at destroying blobs of inf.

Doesn't it depend a little on the map? One of my friends got 41 models with his first Stuka barrage on Essen. Size of blobs decreased greatly after that. The Werfer is probably the best as it will wipe full health Riflemen on open maps.

Doesn't it depend a little on the map? One of my friends got 41 models with his first Stuka barrage on Essen. Size of blobs decreased greatly after that. The Werfer is probably the best as it will wipe full health Riflemen on open maps.

I should have prefaced that with *against players who know what they are doing. Any competent player will know that if he hears stuka sounds, all he has to do is move his blob in any direction and he should be fine. The stuka may be precise, but this also means its predictable. This and its long CD actually make it pretty meh at dealing with blobs.

Doesn't it depend a little on the map? One of my friends got 41 models with his first Stuka barrage on Essen. Size of blobs decreased greatly after that. The Werfer is probably the best as it will wipe full health Riflemen on open maps.

41 models for a single barrage??? This is an extremely rare case.

In new balance patch mod Ober already coming early ，maybe just let IR.stg44 upgrade without T4 upgrade

Replace them with infrared halftrack.
Everyone wins!

I still don't understand why the faction with the best infantry in the game needs it's elite get-out of-jail-free-card Obers any earlier then they come now.

I still don't understand why the faction with the best infantry in the game needs it's elite get-out of-jail-free-card Obers any earlier then they come now.

Because:
1. SU get a top tier mainline with penals (say what you want of their price, they dominate regardless, they shoud be cost innefective yet they dont)
2. Contrary to common belief riflemen are top tier also, though ealrygame is their weakest spot, once vetted and upgunned they solidify and commander squads give the minimal support they need.
3. Volks have been target of rightful complaints of their performance, their original design was a mixture of conscripts and grenadiers and this proved to be too effective, nerfing them into the right spot leaves a big enough gap in the mainline department of OKM

Possible solutions are either buff Luchs timing and power or to enable a new opening with obers without upgrades.

So set aside ranting and start using that thing between the ears to understand

Because:
1. SU get a top tier mainline with penals (say what you want of their price, they dominate regardless, they shoud be cost innefective yet they dont)

Except massive bias, you have something else, perhaps valid, to base that on?

2. Contrary to common belief riflemen are top tier also, though ealrygame is their weakest spot, once vetted and upgunned they solidify and commander squads give the minimal support they need.

So top tier they needed to be buffed now?

3. Volks have been target of rightful complaints of their performance, their original design was a mixture of conscripts and grenadiers and this proved to be too effective, nerfing them into the right spot leaves a big enough gap in the mainline department of OKM

Their first iteration was con-gren mix.
Their current life iteration is beefed up grens without a range they would underperform at.
Also, their performance got completely untouched, they simply got a cost to match that performance, so that as well isn't an argument.

Possible solutions are either buff Luchs timing and power or to enable a new opening with obers without upgrades.

That makes no sense what so ever no matter how you want to look at it or how you want to explain it.

So set aside ranting and start using that thing between the ears to understand

Take your own advise and stop ignoring the fact that penals arrive late and are always outnumbered, warranting their performance and, if they were cost inefficient as you claim they should be for whatever mad reason, they would require to be buffed.

Except massive bias, you have something else, perhaps valid, to base that on?

I dont want to start another endless derail because of penals...
I keep track of how many threads this has been discussed, they always end in volks OP because Penuls OP because cons suck.

At least dont be so predictable with the answers.

So top tier they needed to be buffed now?

Version 1.1 'buff'
Show Spoiler
This emphasizes what i said about riflemen, they are good, not the best at early game, so a take back my point. A near range buff is not what you can call "a neccesary adjust because they suck"
Other than that, they got some doctrinal buffs and som QoL buff, nothing critical.

Their first iteration was con-gren mix.
Their current life iteration is beefed up grens without a range they would underperform at.
Also, their performance got completely untouched, they simply got a cost to match that performance, so that as well isn't an argument.

At least we agree on this one, volks have changed so much its hard to put them in a right balance spot. The obvious way to continue is a volks nerf

That makes no sense what so ever no matter how you want to look at it or how you want to explain it.

I woulnt say that if i were you, because you do understand. An earlier luchs to make up for worse volks is a sensible solution, it would depend on FU cost.
Earlier Obers are still coming later than penals, nothing wrong about it.

Take your own advise and stop ignoring the fact that penals arrive late and are always outnumbered, warranting their performance and, if they were cost inefficient as you claim they should be for whatever mad reason, they would require to be buffed.

Let me use you own advice on yourself then, Obers are still going to be available after the 3rd penal squad and they are going to be cost innefective until upgunned, there is no reason to whine about obers if you consider the penal balance situation.

It's a bit different though considering penals are the Soviets ONLY non doc infantry while okw starts strong with sturms and coasts by on the power of volks. Earlier Obers is a welcome change, but not faction defining like penals have been made to be.

Also you got it wrong, volks are they way they are because of penals, penals are theywat they are because of volks who single handedly show cons how to do ALL of their jobs AND fight as well making cons an absolute obsolete unit.

It's a bit different though considering penals are the Soviets ONLY non doc infantry while okw starts strong with sturms and coasts by on the power of volks. Earlier Obers is a welcome change, but not faction defining like penals have been made to be.

Also you got it wrong, volks are they way they are because of penals, penals are theywat they are because of volks who single handedly show cons how to do ALL of their jobs AND fight as well making cons an absolute obsolete unit.

inb4
"but volks can't merge"

inb4
"but volks can't merge"

Undoubtedly a great feature, but at the cost that is paid (inability to fight, heaps of side techs and no discount on the unit despite them) the drawback to merge is you have to build and have cons to use it and despite merge as awesome as it is cons are still regarded as shit

It's a bit different though considering penals are the Soviets ONLY non doc infantry while okw starts strong with sturms and coasts by on the power of volks. Earlier Obers is a welcome change, but not faction defining like penals have been made to be.

Also you got it wrong, volks are they way they are because of penals, penals are theywat they are because of volks who single handedly show cons how to do ALL of their jobs AND fight as well making cons an absolute obsolete unit.

lower volks close and mid dps ? and make penal balanced ? like start with 2-3 stv and cost 260 mp

lower volks close and mid dps ? and make penal balanced ? like start with 2-3 stv and cost 260 mp

I'd try that at least as a start.
Let em buy more SVTs or ptrs not both.

lower volks close and mid dps ? and make penal balanced ? like start with 2-3 stv and cost 260 mp

260MP 6-man squad sounds too strong to me.