OKW September patch discussion

Except that they don't lose at all ranges. They have fantastic dps at all ranges. They might lose up close to cqb specialists but have the flexibility to not do that. They can engage something like shocks at range and punish them closing via bundled nade or poison smoke or better yet both.

They can't even do that. Shocks can just run onto them and murder them. If you say nade them then I suppose SOV player is either a bot or dumb enough to headbutt a bundlegrenade which has a really distinctive animation and a sound warning.

They have camo so there is no excuse for something like Tommies to not get caught off guard and murder them outside their prime situation. They are extremely versatile but squishy. It takes more than say rangers or shocks or Obers or lmg paras to get the most out of for sure but the threshold of what you can achieve if you CAN use them is higher.

I would definently rather have the Obers and run down others. Who wants a difficult task for a little bit more reward ?

Having a higher taxing unit that can reach higher highs is fine when it's completely optional like falls. If you like the doctrine but not the falls themselves you can always substitute in Obers and use them conventionally.
But I reinforce there is no excuse for a unit with camo to being out in unfavorable fights you get the option to pick and chose... Make use of it. They are 60mp cheaper in the mod, that makes them easier than ever to work into a build and make the enemy wonder what's behind those logs, that sand bag, that crator. Falls can 1v1 any squad if they make use of their kit so even the threat, much like commandos makes sending lone squads very risky for the enemy. Psychological warfare as well as digital!

I seriously bet I can demolish a Falls with Penals. Because it happened to me when I was in yellow cover opened fire penals close the distance slam your high RA face and force you to retreat. Usin elite infantry to only weaken non-doc units seeming a bit absurd to me.

I'd say they're pretty good at that. Which Axis squads can hold back Shocks running you down in an open field exactly?

Obers ?

Watched first 4 minutes, and I'm still unconvinced it's a "good" unit. mediocre for price I'd say. Yes it had a couple good shots in there but it doesn't seem to be able to operate independantly. It almost always had another unit providing damage support. You may say "well no unit should operate independantly". Of course no unit should be a 1 man/tank army, but that doesn't mean you should be able to lounge infront of the most expensive unit ingame and not feel the imminent threat of being wiped. You can't sit in front of a t70 and not feel the threat of being wiped. Not to mention your opponets complete lack of mines or TDs. The only TD I saw was an Su-85 running up to the rear of the KT almost. And although the video should not be a prime example of how good the KT may or may not be, I wasn't impressed by it. Although I did notice the veterancy, which I hope is much easier to obatin now.

Agreed on all of this. Great point on the T-70.

Watched first 4 minutes, and I'm still unconvinced it's a "good" unit. mediocre for price I'd say. Yes it had a couple good shots in there but it doesn't seem to be able to operate independantly. It almost always had another unit providing damage support. You may say "well no unit should operate independantly". Of course no unit should be a 1 man/tank army, but that doesn't mean you should be able to lounge infront of the most expensive unit ingame and not feel the imminent threat of being wiped. You can't sit in front of a t70 and not feel the threat of being wiped. Not to mention your opponets complete lack of mines or TDs. The only TD I saw was an Su-85 running up to the rear of the KT almost. And although the video should not be a prime example of how good the KT may or may not be, I wasn't impressed by it. Although I did notice the veterancy, which I hope is much easier to obatin now.

the kt was invulnerable and very fast, it seems to me like sanders forgot some cheats on

the kt was invulnerable and very fast, it seems to me like sanders forgot some cheats on

Oh lol. I thought it was an actual custom 4s game and he was just playing on 2x speed.

EDIT: I guess I need to read more. He did say it was a 4s with bots. And he had speed hacks...

Obers ?

Ehh.. no. LMG Obers will kill about 3 Shock models before being killed themselves.

The squads that perform best against rushing Shocks are Panzergrenadiers, Falls and STG Obers, but none of those will actually win consistently (unless the Shocks decide to move around after each model death, like on Tightrope's video).

Except that they don't lose at all ranges. They have fantastic dps at all ranges. They might lose up close to cqb specialists but have the flexibility to not do that. They can engage something like shocks at range and punish them closing via bundled nade or poison smoke or better yet both. They have camo so there is no excuse for something like Tommies to not get caught off guard and murder them outside their prime situation. They are extremely versatile but squishy. It takes more than say rangers or shocks or Obers or lmg paras to get the most out of for sure but the threshold of what you can achieve if you CAN use them is higher.
Having a higher taxing unit that can reach higher highs is fine when it's completely optional like falls. If you like the doctrine but not the falls themselves you can always substitute in Obers and use them conventionally.
But I reinforce there is no excuse for a unit with camo to being out in unfavorable fights you get the option to pick and chose... Make use of it. They are 60mp cheaper in the mod, that makes them easier than ever to work into a build and make the enemy wonder what's behind those logs, that sand bag, that crator. Falls can 1v1 any squad if they make use of their kit so even the threat, much like commandos makes sending lone squads very risky for the enemy. Psychological warfare as well as digital!

u saw tightropes vid? the Problem is that they cant bring the dps to the enemy ..BECAUSE they fuckin die like Flys! what is so difficult to understand that.
That DPS split of the 4 FG's is the Problem. They where much more combat effectiv if the main DMG would come from 2 FG's.

So i have an SUPER Elite Fallis it that just have chance by invest 60+ mun for nades. Sure... and the others just A move and shred all. Sounds fair to me.

Now we have just other low tier cammo unit. There is no reason to pick them instead of obers.

Ehh.. no. LMG Obers will kill about 3 Shock models before being killed themselves.

The squads that perform best against rushing Shocks are Panzergrenadiers, Falls and STG Obers, but none of those will actually win (unless the Shocks decide to flop around after each model death).

Yes until vet 2.

Idk why OKW dosent get a proper elite inf call in. It would make the Commander so much better.

u saw tightropes vid? the Problem is that they cant bring the dps to the enemy ..BECAUSE they fuckin die like Flys! what is so difficult to understand that.
That DPS split of the 4 FG's is the Problem. They where much more combat effectiv if the main DMG would come from 2 FG's.
So i have an SUPER Elite Fallis it that just have chance by invest 60+ mun for nades. Sure... and the others just A move and shred all. Sounds fair to me.
Now we have just other low tier cammo unit. There is no reason to pick them instead of obers.
Yes until vet 2.
Idk why OKW dosent get a proper elite inf call in. It would make the Commander so much better.

+1
This.

Yes until vet 2.

They'Il do comparatively better than at vet 0, but still won't hold back Shocks as well as Falls.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iAmlc9Dfr4

These are only two runs, but in the runs before this Falls also consistently did better. I've not actually seen LMG Obers win yet, while Falls win the majority of times.

tight rope tested the falls on YouTube, they are bad

I guess I overestimated their capabilities. Guess they will be the same non-viable unit as they are still.

u saw tightropes vid? the Problem is that they cant bring the dps to the enemy ..BECAUSE they fuckin die like Flys! what is so difficult to understand that.
That DPS split of the 4 FG's is the Problem. They where much more combat effectiv if the main DMG would come from 2 FG's.

So i have an SUPER Elite Fallis it that just have chance by invest 60+ mun for nades. Sure... and the others just A move and shred all. Sounds fair to me.

Now we have just other low tier cammo unit. There is no reason to pick them instead of obers.



Yes until vet 2.

Idk why OKW dosent get a proper elite inf call in. It would make the Commander so much better.

Use a buffer then if you can't make use of cover. I maintain my stance. When used properly falls are God tier.
It's difficult making an elite AI infantry squad for OKW because they will ALWAYS have Obers. Falls come quicker and hit harder now that ever before but are squishy. Pick. Your. Fights. They do fantastic damage at all ranges. They can self heal with vet, they can reinforce on field with an ability that also gives them fore support. They have valiant assault to boost them through the roof. They are not as easy to use as Obers but the ceiling of what they can do is MUCH higher. Nobody is forcing you to use them if attack move is more your flavor and that's the joy of doctrines. Some of us DON'T want Ober clones. Some of us WANT units that make what WE can do shine, not just a unit with concentrated DPS so it can be as forgiving as possible. Some of us are playing for fun, not just the easiest way to the top of leader boards.

Falls offer an alternative to Obers, they don't replace them and if you can hack it falls will do far better than Obers. Again. Treat them like a more flexible commando squad. Ambush. Pick your fights. Bleed them to shit and make them fear not having a number advantage when they move around. There's more to this game than raw DPS and received accuracy.

Nerf Obers instead.

I appreciate efforts to tone down spec op, but why recon flare still remain untouched?

Use a buffer then if you can't make use of cover. I maintain my stance. When used properly falls are God tier.
It's difficult making an elite AI infantry squad for OKW because they will ALWAYS have Obers. Falls come quicker and hit harder now that ever before but are squishy. Pick. Your. Fights. They do fantastic damage at all ranges. They can self heal with vet, they can reinforce on field with an ability that also gives them fore support. They have valiant assault to boost them through the roof. They are not as easy to use as Obers but the ceiling of what they can do is MUCH higher. Nobody is forcing you to use them if attack move is more your flavor and that's the joy of doctrines. Some of us DON'T want Ober clones. Some of us WANT units that make what WE can do shine, not just a unit with concentrated DPS so it can be as forgiving as possible. Some of us are playing for fun, not just the easiest way to the top of leader boards.

Falls offer an alternative to Obers, they don't replace them and if you can hack it falls will do far better than Obers. Again. Treat them like a more flexible commando squad. Ambush. Pick your fights. Bleed them to shit and make them fear not having a number advantage when they move around. There's more to this game than raw DPS and received accuracy.

yes When u invest 100 mun for nade and bobytrap... maybe.
Yes there is another Problem, u always need Schwere in the end. So even u go for mech and fallis there comes the point where u need some Tanks and u can get obers.

Maybe after spec ops nerf we see more Fallis in the 1vs1 department but the main Problem stays " theyre dying like flys" and u always need Schwere and get the obers.

Just rework the commander. hmm what about to add a pak 43 emplacement? maybe than u dont have to go for schwere

As long as new Falls. will not turn out to be the new OKW effective A-move infantry is fine change IMO.

I still think the Devs need to make the Raketenwerfer a better AT support unit.

The current Rak changes are not enough to make it a good support AT weapon.


What it needs is a decrease in "Delay" (since its nearly 3 times longer than others)
and
decrease its time to "Reload" from 4 seconds to somewhere like 3 seconds and anything less.

Increase price of Rak to 300 manpower. To make it a viable AT support weapon. Also to decrease its impact on early game in the process.


Then it will do a good enough job than now in supporting, regardless, either FlakHalftrack or Luchs even Kubel for that matter.

Which would be a huge fix to their 2 current problems

- AT issues, since Rak which is currently a terrible support AT unit, cant support anything properly, terrible at supporting lights. Fixing it would remove the problems.

- Lights not being entirely vulnerable. If Rak is not terrible anymore


Mostly, we have to depend on the changes their making on Raketenwerfer mostly because it is the only key for OKW to use the Lights efficiently. Without Rak, there is simply no lights.

- Falls feel worse than before. Shocks are OK at 2 CP but 4 FG Falls not? LMAO

Shocks aren't stealth infiltration all-range unit packed with fausts, 2 types of damaging nades that can be used one after another and what not.

- KT needs more AOE, wouldn`t say the main gun change made it any better. Veterancy requirements are still pretty high.

Its not exclusively anti infantry unit, try shooting tanks with it.

- Rak changes are too much. Just make it 5 men with camo only when stationary and be done with it.

It doesn't take long to get vet1, which does exactly that.
Current one works more like standard ATG and whilst USF one sacrifices penetration for cheap cost, rak sacrifices bit of range to get 5th man. Its still cheapest and T0 ATG, it can not be stronger without tech lock.

Pfussies are superior to volks... its insensible for them to be priced 260mp when volks cost the same price...

PFs are weaker then volks without upgrade.

And any change about art flares?

Shocks aren't stealth infiltration all-range unit packed with fausts, 2 types of damaging nades that can be used one after another and what not.


Its not exclusively anti infantry unit, try shooting tanks with it.

Falls aren't infiltration units anymore, they can only be paradroped in and their early arrival power just got seriously nerfed. Also despite their all range advantage they still lose easily to shocks moving over open ground. Even if they are meant to fight in cover they shouldn't be losing to shocks who just close in from long range with no smoke.

If people want a heavy AT vehicle they'll go for a Jagdtiger, but when people go for a KT they want a generalist heavy but the KT's AI is still not worth the investment because it's hardly better than a Panzer iv if not worse sometimes because of inconsistency.

I think it would be nice if Kubel got some adjustments to its accuracy since it heavily relies on being stationary.

The Universal Carrier has overall better stationary accuracy and accuracy on the move altogether, meaning higher DPS.

Kubel should get some improvements on accuracy (only while stationary), especially at range, it is quite poor its stats at the moment.

Not too important, yet a change I am looking forward to.