OKW September patch discussion

I just had a thought.

Most units with DR in the game are bigger tanks that, when hit, have 160 damage multiplied by 90%, which leaves a whole number.

Does the balance team know if damage is rounded down or up when, say a 12 damage small arms is multiplied by 80% on the new kuebel?

The Universal Carrier has overall better stationary accuracy and accuracy on the move altogether, meaning higher DPS.

The Universal Carrier can not capture territory. Therefor people will never build more than one and that is why it can have better combat characteristics. If you make the Kubelwagen any better however, you risk that people will spam them instead of infantry.

The improved Kubelwagen is already nice in the current live version, and the only thing I found holding me back from using them every game that I generally need to sacrifice too much vital early game Sturmpioneer time repairing them. The manpower bleed inflicted by Kubels does not outweigh the down time on Sturmpioneers imo. That should be solved in the upcoming patch however.

I think it would be nice if Kubel got some adjustments to its accuracy since it heavily relies on being stationary.

The Universal Carrier has overall better stationary accuracy and accuracy on the move altogether, meaning higher DPS.

Kubel should get some improvements on accuracy (only while stationary), especially at range, it is quite poor its stats at the moment.

Not too important, yet a change I am looking forward to.

The Kuble does enough damage for a 210mp speed racer. When it catches units in the open it's more than deadly enough to inflict bleed without ever coming close to death itself. Matter of fact in an open area with no cover it will wipe all allied t0 units without dying to something like a 90% margin.

Its a harassment vehicle, not the volks of lights designed to do everything well for as cheap as possible

Kubel in terms of what it can and can not do, what I know it does properly mostly is capping mainly.

In terms of supporting and firepower, it is somewhat lacking for its price.



Here me out:

It is definitely a good harassing unit, capping and decapping but other than that, there is not much else you can really say it is good at. Maybe recon but it only limits to infantry movement only which is good but has to fulfill some roles somewhat better.

When I say firepower, it is not that it has to be, wow great or strong.

No, it has to be more consistent, reliable and an independent unit in some ways.


Currently, it is not consistent, reliable or nor even an independent unit, not enough though.

It heavily relies on being supported meaning, It being supported more than it can support itself.

Its current accuracy is rather poor for both being stationary and while on the move. It is pretty terrible actually, really in a poor state.

Thus, I would say it deserves a buff in "accuracy" just ONLY while being stationary. It needs to also play properly a role of AI support.

It needs play more in the combat department more and less in "hide and seek" kind of gameplay as it does now.




It is currently a scout and cap guy only (a harasser which is viable mostly in 1v1 and 2v2 only, team games not so much).

Sucks at being supportive, it is unreliable in combat and overall not so viable. In terms of scaling, well it is not so great either overall.

Sure improved more than before, but not so much.



It needs to be more like, less a harasser and more of a supporter (provide infantry support at range).

Like being supportive enough, reliable in combat and somewhat more viable. So, that it can scale better also.

Buff price in the process like make it 230 manpower. Effects also early gameplay too, am I not right?


I say buff accuracy more to having it better off than Universal Carriers standard accuracy (without upgrade), only while stationary.

Universal Carrier has already way better by standard/default accuracy BOTH while stationary and on the move.

Plus it has better DPS. Not to mention also, it has an upgrade which not only boosts its accuracy more but damage also.



On the move the Kubel should be like crap but while stationary, it has to feel great (enough).

Just so it becomes more consistent, viable, somewhat independent yet relies on support but can also in the process provide some more better in the return.

All in all, the Kubel deserves a buff in accuracy, just to play more a supportive role than it currently does.

That is it, that is all it deserves. An accuracy buff only while being stationary. Make it its strength.

The Universal Carrier can not capture territory. Therefor people will never build more than one and that is why it can have better combat characteristics. If you make the Kubelwagen any better however, you risk that people will spam them instead of infantry.

The improved Kubelwagen is already nice in the current live version, and the only thing I found holding me back from using them every game that I generally need to sacrifice too much vital early game Sturmpioneer time repairing them. The manpower bleed inflicted by Kubels does not outweigh the down time on Sturmpioneers imo. That should be solved in the upcoming patch however.

Very true indeed.

The manpower bleed inflicted by Kubels does not outweigh the down time on Sturmpioneers imo. That should be solved in the upcoming patch however.

That is also why it needs furthermore, improvements on its accuracy.

Only stationary accuracy improvements.


Kubel currently has accuracy: 0.7 (near) , 0.55 (mid) , 0.35 (far)
Universal Carrier has by default: 0.8 (near) , 0.7 (mid) , 0.6 (far)

upgrades with Universal Carrier not only improves further their accuracy but damage also.


So, the idea for Kubels new accuracy, roughly I believe should be like. Something like this.

Kubel new version suggestion acc: 0.7 (near) , 0.7 (mid) , 0.7 (far)


To make it more consistent, supportive and more helpful.

Increase cost of Kubel to 220 or 230 instead. Affects early game in the proccess a little more but also to make it better too.

The Kuble does enough damage for a 210mp speed racer. When it catches units in the open it's more than deadly enough to inflict bleed without ever coming close to death itself. Matter of fact in an open area with no cover it will wipe all allied t0 units without dying to something like a 90% margin.

Its a harassment vehicle, not the volks of lights designed to do everything well for as cheap as possible

I think the Kubel Struggles because it does not scale like the UC does. For only 50 MP more you have 2 upgrades that offer damage as well as Utility.

A vanilla UC, WC51, Kubel are all pretty bad, but the WC51 and UC can scale with a munitions investment.

Add some kind of munitions upgrade and you would have a kubel that could be useful past minute 3 when you can have a 221 on the field

Note those other 2 units can self repair too

I love the change in assault artillery. But i think it would need bit more shells in higher intensity to be more effective.

Some Commander ability maybe can give more buff
Heavy Fortification——2cp，Allowed SturmPioneer build Flak Emplacement and allowed VG build bunker,bunker can upgrade medical station and commander bunker,same as OST,also for Luftwaffe Ground Forces doctrine
Field Defence——0cp,Bundle with Thorough Salavge,allowed SP and VG build trench,SP can build Tank Trap,and VG can lay SMine,also work on Scavnge doctrine
Incendiary Munitions——Replace by callin a 250/7 Mortar HT，it has Incendiary munitions too,and more high mobility，very helpful for OKW
IR.stg44——No need T4 upgrade,and when upgrade,give Ober some scout ability,like increase sight or maybe ignore block mark 50m range enemy like Infrared HT.

Falls aren't infiltration units anymore, they can only be paradroped in and their early arrival power just got seriously nerfed.

I said "infiltration" because it was faster to type then "spawns on field category".
Bottom line, you insert then directly on field, at or near the place you want without having to move them across whole map from your base, all units capable of that, regardless of method, have an extra resource tax due to that(except partisans, who aren't exactly elite infantries).

Also despite their all range advantage they still lose easily to shocks moving over open ground. Even if they are meant to fight in cover they shouldn't be losing to shocks who just close in from long range with no smoke.

They are not meant to go toe to toe with shocks, unless you land a nade on shocks(or any other perfect ambush scenario), frontal assault infantry specialist will always beat ambusher.

If people want a heavy AT vehicle they'll go for a Jagdtiger, but when people go for a KT they want a generalist heavy but the KT's AI is still not worth the investment because it's hardly better than a Panzer iv if not worse sometimes because of inconsistency.

Most expensive generalist in game will vet up slowest.
Especially hitting targets that provide THE least amount of vet in game.
ISU is primarily AI vehicle, yet I have never seen it vet up past 1 star by infantry killing alone.

Some change for SturmPioneer,I think Support Package should not lock Combat Package and Flamethrower,SP cost many population,without support package OKW vehicle repair is least efficient（without T3 repair engineer）,so support package is irreplaceable for OKW
Maybe can change like this——Combat package and flamethrower can lock out each other，but can upgrade Support Package,support package cost 1 weapon slot，after T4 or second HQ deployed allow upgrade second package

It will be cool if Kubel can call in arty in late game like USF Jeep!

They are not meant to go toe to toe with shocks, unless you land a nade on shocks(or any other perfect ambush scenario), frontal assault infantry specialist will always beat ambusher.

Most expensive generalist in game will vet up slowest.
Especially hitting targets that provide THE least amount of vet in game.
ISU is primarily AI vehicle, yet I have never seen it vet up past 1 star by infantry killing alone.

If they go toe to toe at close range with shocks or if they close from medium range than sure shocks should win but they shouldn't be able to just a-move over open ground from long range and still win even after Falls have been fully upgraded.

I literally didn't mention the KT's veterancy at all, I wasn't complaining about how slow it vets up when fighting infantry, I was bringing how it's AI is insufficient because you can usually get equal if not better AI from a P4.

Pfussies need a muni cost decrease to around 60-75 for g43, at the current status its pretty much already like kicknig yourself in the nuts by getting them since they suck ass early game.

Kubelwagen
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Once more damage reduction is complicated solution to a simple problem. If one want kubel to take less damage simply revert some of the nerf to armour and adjust HP as needed.

Imo what is actually needed to make kubel more attractive is:

1) Reduce built time.
Reason: the unit is mostly built to help cap faster but it takes so long to built that in most map it does not really offer an advantage.

2)Reduce the penetration of the HMG of light car like M3/WC51/UC.
Reason: These units deal too much damage to kubel making extremely difficult to move a kubel out of harm way and greatly reducing the window of opportunity for using the unit.

Kubelwagen
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Once more damage reduction is complicated solution to a simple problem. If one want kubel to take less damage simply revert some of the nerf to armour and adjust HP as needed.

Imo what is actually needed to make kubel more attractive is:

1) Reduce built time.
Reason: the unit is mostly built to help cap faster but it takes so long to built that in most map it does not really offer an advantage.

2)Reduce the penetration of the HMG of light car like M3/WC51/UC.
Reason: These units deal too much damage to kubel making extremely difficult to move a kubel out of harm way and greatly reducing the window of opportunity for using the unit.

I can't think of a single reason that an m3 shouldn't eat a Kuble alive. If memory serves its 25 fuel and 330mp with teching included...

Faster build might be squiffy too since the unit itself is pretty quick and caps pretty fast as well. It already affords a lot of map control and against the Soviet in particular who lack combat units without t1 it really helps strums eat up any starting units.




Also I'm not sure doubling it's long range accuracy is the way to go at all......

I can't think of a single reason that an m3 shouldn't eat a Kuble alive. If memory serves its 25 fuel and 330mp with teching included...

I was referring to the Soviet M3A3 or else known clown car.

Faster build might be squiffy too since the unit itself is pretty quick and caps pretty fast as well. It already affords a lot of map control and against the Soviet in particular who lack combat units without t1 it really helps strums eat up any starting units.

Unless the map is really big there is very little benefit in capping since it the built time is close to that of VG that are better at defending the caped area. Reducing built time increase the window of opportunity to use the unit effectively.

Also I'm not sure doubling it's long range accuracy is the way to go at all......

I never suggested doubling the DPS. The DPS across car should become more consistent from vehicle to vehicles but I would rather see these vehicles do less DPS and be more durable then do lots of damage.

If they go toe to toe at close range with shocks or if they close from medium range than sure shocks should win but they shouldn't be able to just a-move over open ground from long range and still win even after Falls have been fully upgraded.

Why?
That's literally how shocks are supposed to be used against ALL infantries in 1 on 1 situations.
If you aren't going to hit shocks with nade, you're going to lose the engagement.
If you want to beat shocks with small arms, you better have plenty of them.

I literally didn't mention the KT's veterancy at all, I wasn't complaining about how slow it vets up when fighting infantry, I was bringing how it's AI is insufficient because you can usually get equal if not better AI from a P4.

Its AI needs to be reliable, not better, it needs to be a viable alternative, not the go-to thing in every single game and match up.

No more gimmicky dual self scouting invisible rakaten cheese, thank god.

Shocks will be fine after call-in techlock + higher nade cooldown. Currently, spamming Shocks into call-in tank is very oppressive.

That's literally how shocks are supposed to be used against ALL infantries in 1 on 1 situations.
If you aren't going to hit shocks with nade, you're going to lose the engagement.
If you want to beat shocks with small arms, you better have plenty of them.

This. Falls are not supposed to beat Shocks 1 on 1 (nor any squad for that matter), but they can do significant damage against them if you've got them backed up, pop Valiant Assault or just retreat once the Shocks come close.

What I would do with the Falls is fix the late timing of their second FG42 package and lower their dps a bit for Stormtrooper RA (0,83-0,59 -> 0,75-0,53). With the Command Panther tech lock, I feel Luftwaffe will become a top 3 OKW commander anyway, with 4 strong and verstatile abilities. Hell, even tank traps, trenches and Flak can be useful at times.

Shocks will be fine after call-in techlock + higher nade cooldown. Currently, spamming Shocks into call-in tank is very oppressive.



This. Falls are not supposed to beat Shocks 1 on 1 (nor any squad for that matter), but they can do significant damage against them if you've got them backed up, pop Valiant Assault or just retreat once the Shocks come close.

What I would do with the Falls is fix the late timing of their second FG42 package and lower their dps a bit for Stormtrooper RA (0,83-0,59 -> 0,75-0,53). With the Command Panther tech lock, I feel Luftwaffe will become a top 3 OKW commander anyway, with 4 strong and verstatile abilities. Hell, even tank traps, trenches and Flak can be useful at times.

sure only allies should have A move inf play... and than nerf volks pls.

And why are they not supposed to beat theam ? who said this ? some allied fan boy?

I feel Luftwaffe will become a top 3 OKW commander anyway

Yeah but why ? not because its so good. or the nerf/buff had change anything ... they still dying like flys.

This. Falls are not supposed to beat Shocks 1 on 1 (nor any squad for that matter), but they can do significant damage against them if you've got them backed up, pop Valiant Assault or just retreat once the Shocks come close.

I don't agree with this either. Why should shocks win hands down exactly? Shock investment is 100% in the manpower and they come with their PPSHs. If falls through the mod go through, they'd have to buy the 2nd FG42s and come at the same CP for only 40MP(?) less? I don't see why 40MP(?) should guarantee a shock victory, especially if falls have to buy their upgrades. It's like saying why don't volks beat 2x BAR rifles. Probably because rifles have greater investment in their weapons.

If shocks should hands down win frontally charging an all range squad, Pgrens should be charging sections through open cover and rolling them.