OKW September patch discussion

So weapons with focus fire on "true" have a definite advantage in killing models fast. It's quite apparent if you put Falls and LMG Para's against each other.

Then why FG42s don't have focus fire ?

And for the G43s

1) Don't forget they arrive much sooner for 25muni compared to Falls second package.
2) Looks like I remembered the close range. Now checked it your math is true for long range and I was wrong but interestingly semi-automatic G43s + 1 STG44 has higher DPS at close range.

So I actually like the falls. I know I'm a hlod out of liking units that are supposed to make use of cover instead of attacking across open ground head on but I think that's what makes falls unique. They can engage from any range and camo so they can pick when/what range to fight from. I like to use them kind of like commandos, but without the restrictions of HAVING to be at close range meaning they can help out in a big fire fight. A very strong and versatile unit that imo has a lot to offer if used outside the conventional "walk at the enemy shooting and hope to come out on top" approach of most WFA elite infantry

Not a fan of the OKW changes. While it may be the true Fallschirmjägers perform better overall, they are now losing matchups they were winning in the current live version. I think the Falls rework is doing too much, all they needed was a slight RA tweak.

Rak was always a meme unit, but now it's completely useless. 5 man do not change the fatal flaws of it, namely that it misses way too often, and that it dies to as much as a sneeze and will inevitably end up in enemy hands. Now even more so with the retreat option gone.

King Tiger, sadly, is still useless. In fact, I'd argue it's now even worse because the odds of landing wipes with it are borderline non-existent. I get the balance team wants to reduce the lethality of tanks, but the King Tiger has nothing else going for it. Sure, it can take on any medium tank, but that's it. Panthers can do that as well, at a much cheaper cost. And I'd argue Panthers do way better against TDs than a slow, cumbersome King Tiger.

Big difference between purely close range orientated Stormtrooper MP 40s and the all-ranges orientated Falls FG 42s though. Assault and Hold also doesn't let Stormtroopers sprint in for maximum damage / minimum exposure.

Maybe an adjustment to their DPS can fix it.

IMO usin them with valiant assault may lead to severe consequences due to :

* Their RA not being changed thus still dropping like flies and bleeding big chunks of manpower.
* They cost big popcap thus preventing huge armies or blobs considering OKW's already high popcaps.

Thats why I think making them a infiltration unit with :
1) A slight adjustment to their DPS
2) Removal of the bundlegrenade for fuersturm Model 24 or Democharge
3) Removal of PFaust

That way they will not be viable as mainline infantry since they will not get snares or super effective nades.
They are also not popping out of buildings and infiltrate via paradrop. Making an infiltration unit like that can be very unique for both Fallschrimjager and OKW.
( Yes I really like Falls and pressing that hard for that reason so excuse me if I'm being a retard )

Show Spoiler

Show Spoiler

I just learned this too.

So weapons with focus fire on "true" have a definite advantage in killing models fast. It's quite apparent if you put Falls and LMG Para's against each other.

Thats why we want 2 FG's and not 4.

one for 60 mun with the power of 2 old FG's

and after the schwere upgrade u can buy another for 60.

That enables focus fire and redues the normel better peformence of 5-6 Man units.

So I actually like the falls. I know I'm a hlod out of liking units that are supposed to make use of cover instead of attacking across open ground head on but I think that's what makes falls unique. They can engage from any range and camo so they can pick when/what range to fight from. I like to use them kind of like commandos, but without the restrictions of HAVING to be at close range meaning they can help out in a big fire fight. A very strong and versatile unit that imo has a lot to offer if used outside the conventional "walk at the enemy shooting and hope to come out on top" approach of most WFA elite infantry

But they loose at any Range .. so just never figtht or what ?

Thats why no one wants it and they suck... because theyre are so good!

Commandos are much more durable and have the best retreat ingame.
Not like these F&F Fallis

Fallschirmjäger
Show Spoiler

Imo Fallschirmjäger suffer from an identity crisis.

They where originally designed as an infiltration unit but now changed to airdrop unit. If they are an airdropped unit there is little reason not to be modeled after other airdropped units like paras.

So either make a infiltration units with small number of model and camo or an airdropped unit with large number of entities so they can survive the air drop.

If you are staying with the air drop lose the camo and increase entity count to 6 (or 5) allow 2 upgrades either FG42 with LMG profile or MP-40 with Thompson profile.

Alternatively model FG42 to have a profile similar to BAR.

Or simply return them to original design of infiltration units since currently OKW do not have to this type of unit.


"- Can now be upgraded with 2 FG 42s for free."
If you choose to continue to the current direction lower price and make the FG42 cost munition. There is little reason to complicate game mechanics with "free" weapon upgrade to non infiltration units.

I found the tanks tested in the UKF/OKW video by tightrope very lack luster. It shouldn't take a stationary tank 50 seconds to kill a single squad, panzer 4s and HE shermans are currently all better than the Tiger/KT/comet in the AI department at max range for some reason. And don't say "armor", armor is completley RNG dependant and honestly is probably the primary issue with tank balance.

I found heavy tanks, and the KT in particular, a lot more reliable on average than they were before in more realistic scenarios, i.e. against clumped and damaged squads, with all MGs firing, and with other units firing too.

That said, the new AOEs are just a first iteration and we can tinker with them still.


Here's a test vs active bots that I did, judge for yourself. Don't mind the speedhacks.

While it may be the true Fallschirmjägers perform better overall, they are now losing matchups they were winning in the current live version. I think the Falls rework is doing too much, all they needed was a slight RA tweak.

Rak was always a meme unit, but now it's completely useless. 5 man do not change the fatal flaws of it, namely that it misses way too often, and that it dies to as much as a sneeze and will inevitably end up in enemy hands. Now even more so with the retreat option gone.

King Tiger, sadly, is still useless. In fact, I'd argue it's now even worse because the odds of landing wipes with it are borderline non-existent. I get the balance team wants to reduce the lethality of tanks, but the King Tiger has nothing else going for it. Sure, it can take on any medium tank, but that's it. Panthers can do that as well, at a much cheaper cost. And I'd argue Panthers do way better against TDs than a slow, cumbersome King Tiger.

Not sure about the KT but youre right about Falls and Raks imo.
+1

Then why FG42s don't have focus fire ?

I assume it would make them too strong. The team could try giving them 2 FG42's with focus fire and 2 FG42's without focus fire, but honestly it's not really necessary. Their intended role is not the same as squads with 1919's, DP28's or Brens.

Dps is dps. If you can get them in a spot where they can deal their damage without the enemy able to fight back effectively, they will wreck either way, which is what you should strive for with Falls.

And for the G43s

1) Don't forget they arrive much sooner for 25muni compared to Falls second package.
2) Looks like I remembered the close range. Now checked it your math is true for long range and I was wrong but interestingly semi-automatic G43s + 1 STG44 has higher DPS at close range.

The G43 package becomes 60 munitions again next patch.

I'm not quite sure how the new timing for the second FG42 combat package will work out. They should just make Falls 3 CP with 4 FG42's again if the second combat package arrives too late.

So I actually like the falls. I know I'm a hlod out of liking units that are supposed to make use of cover instead of attacking across open ground head on but I think that's what makes falls unique. They can engage from any range and camo so they can pick when/what range to fight from. I like to use them kind of like commandos, but without the restrictions of HAVING to be at close range meaning they can help out in a big fire fight. A very strong and versatile unit that imo has a lot to offer if used outside the conventional "walk at the enemy shooting and hope to come out on top" approach of most WFA elite infantry

+1

I found heavy tanks, and the KT in particular, a lot more reliable on average than they were before in more realistic scenarios, i.e. against clumped and damaged squads, with all MGs firing, and with other units firing too.

That said, the new AOEs are just a first iteration and we can tinker with them still.


Here's a test vs active bots that I did, judge for yourself. Don't mind the speedhacks.

Video doesn't seem to work at least here. I think having the KTs OHK radius at 0 is crippling its ability I think, however that may be because of its 240 damage so the dropoff needs to be steeper. Idk, just doesn't sell me for most expensive unit ingame. I see little reason to build it still.

Video doesn't seem to work at least here. I think having the KTs OHK radius at 0 is crippling its ability I think, however that may be because of its 240 damage so the dropoff needs to be steeper. Idk, just doesn't sell me for most expensive unit ingame. I see little reason to build it still.

I would rather see allied TDs toned down than KT being buffed .

Video doesn't seem to work at least here.

Woops set it to the wrong setting. Should work now.

I would rather see allied TDs toned down than KT being buffed .

How about no

I found heavy tanks, and the KT in particular, a lot more reliable on average than they were before in more realistic scenarios, i.e. against clumped and damaged squads, with all MGs firing, and with other units firing too.

That said, the new AOEs are just a first iteration and we can tinker with them still.


Here's a test vs active bots that I did, judge for yourself. Don't mind the speedhacks.

That's actually kinda scary lol. Guess it's jackson spam or die now XD

I assume it would make them too strong. The team could try giving them 2 FG42's with focus fire and 2 FG42's without focus fire, but honestly it's not really necessary. Their intended role is not the same as squads with 1919's, DP28's or Brens.

Then what is their intended role. Giving 320 Mp to a a squad to just wait IF the enemy does stuff like you hoped is ABSURD. Elite infantry must be pro-active not reactive. They don't have demos or camo like proper infiltrators nor they have a good RA to keep themselves in fights. Heck they can't even hold themselves against Shocks running them down in open field.

But they loose at any Range .. so just never figtht or what ?

Thats why no one wants it and they suck... because theyre are so good!

Commandos are much more durable and have the best retreat ingame.
Not like these F&F Fallis

Except that they don't lose at all ranges. They have fantastic dps at all ranges. They might lose up close to cqb specialists but have the flexibility to not do that. They can engage something like shocks at range and punish them closing via bundled nade or poison smoke or better yet both. They have camo so there is no excuse for something like Tommies to not get caught off guard and murder them outside their prime situation. They are extremely versatile but squishy. It takes more than say rangers or shocks or Obers or lmg paras to get the most out of for sure but the threshold of what you can achieve if you CAN use them is higher.
Having a higher taxing unit that can reach higher highs is fine when it's completely optional like falls. If you like the doctrine but not the falls themselves you can always substitute in Obers and use them conventionally.
But I reinforce there is no excuse for a unit with camo to being out in unfavorable fights you get the option to pick and chose... Make use of it. They are 60mp cheaper in the mod, that makes them easier than ever to work into a build and make the enemy wonder what's behind those logs, that sand bag, that crator. Falls can 1v1 any squad if they make use of their kit so even the threat, much like commandos makes sending lone squads very risky for the enemy. Psychological warfare as well as digital!

Then what is their intended role. Giving 320 Mp to a a squad to just wait IF the enemy does stuff like you hoped is ABSURD. Elite infantry must be pro-active not reactive. They don't have demos or camo like proper infiltrators nor they have a good RA to keep themselves in fights.

Their role is not A-moving. Check out Von's stream if you want to know how to use Falls, he's been using the doctrine extensively in preparation of the upcoming Command Panther nerf.

I do want to add, seeing VonIvan use Falls, that the timing of their second FG42 package would come too late. Pretty sure Von said the same himself. He gets Falls around the 7 minute mark.

Heck they can't even hold themselves against Shocks running them down in open field.

I'd say they're pretty good at that. Which Axis squad can hold back Shocks running you down in an open field exactly?

Woops set it to the wrong setting. Should work now.

Watched first 4 minutes, and I'm still unconvinced it's a "good" unit. mediocre for price I'd say. Yes it had a couple good shots in there but it doesn't seem to be able to operate independantly. It almost always had another unit providing damage support. You may say "well no unit should operate independantly". Of course no unit should be a 1 man/tank army, but that doesn't mean you should be able to lounge infront of the most expensive unit ingame and not feel the imminent threat of being wiped. You can't sit in front of a t70 and not feel the threat of being wiped. Not to mention your opponets complete lack of mines or TDs. The only TD I saw was an Su-85 running up to the rear of the KT almost. And although the video should not be a prime example of how good the KT may or may not be, I wasn't impressed by it. Although I did notice the veterancy, which I hope is much easier to obatin now.