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Soviet September patch discussion

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30 Aug 2019, 21:41 PM
#481
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

SEPTEMBER 2019 PATCH PREVIEW - VERSION 1.3



Please take out all of the changes to mobilize reserves. I realize that it started as an attempt to improve it but it's turned into a dealbreaking nerf. If you want bolstered squads that can snare and throw molotov's, you pay 305mp/45fuel plus 240mp/50muni per squad. I usually get 2-3 so the average cost per squad is at least 340/15/50, which seems like it should get you an Ober or Falls instead of a slightly less shitty Con squad.
30 Aug 2019, 21:54 PM
#482
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Aug 2019, 21:41 PMGrumpy


Please take out all of the changes to mobilize reserves. I realize that it started as an attempt to improve it but it's turned into a dealbreaking nerf. If you want bolstered squads that can snare and throw molotov's, you pay 305mp/45fuel plus 240mp/50muni per squad. I usually get 2-3 so the average cost per squad is at least 340/15/50, which seems like it should get you an Ober or Falls instead of a slightly less shitty Con squad.

Isnt it optional and you still get 7th man for free after T4?
30 Aug 2019, 22:02 PM
#483
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Aug 2019, 21:54 PMKirrik

Isnt it optional and you still get 7th man for free after T4?


No, you have to pay 100mp/25 fuel to enable the upgrade globally, then pay 50 munis per squad, and then pay for the reinforcement, which I forgot in my earlier post. If you have three squads then it is 360mp/15fuel/50muni per squad. I sometimes just get two if I'm going to get Guards or shocks so then the price per squad is 410/22/50 per squad.
30 Aug 2019, 22:36 PM
#484
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Aug 2019, 22:02 PMGrumpy


No, you have to pay 100mp/25 fuel to enable the upgrade globally, then pay 50 munis per squad, and then pay for the reinforcement, which I forgot in my earlier post. If you have three squads then it is 360mp/15fuel/50muni per squad. I sometimes just get two if I'm going to get Guards or shocks so then the price per squad is 410/22/50 per squad.


Yes, I agree. I have been getting like 1 conscript squad instead of a penal here and there, because i can get 7 man later, but I'm not gonna do that and have a diverse army if i need the global upgrade.

This basically only makes the upgrade useful if your con spamming, not if you just want like 1 or two con squads. Having t4 should unlock the upgrade without buying something in t3 if you want to encourage diverse armies instead of just making it a con spam upgrade.
30 Aug 2019, 23:19 PM
#485
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 732

I hope Assault Guards no longer bundle with HT
31 Aug 2019, 01:20 AM
#486
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Yes, I agree. I have been getting like 1 conscript squad instead of a penal here and there, because i can get 7 man later, but I'm not gonna do that and have a diverse army if i need the global upgrade.

This basically only makes the upgrade useful if your con spamming, not if you just want like 1 or two con squads. Having t4 should unlock the upgrade without buying something in t3 if you want to encourage diverse armies instead of just making it a con spam upgrade.

That's the basis of all conscript upgrades... Only worth it if you want multiple squads of dead weight to invest heaps of resources into so they function only slightly below their counterparts instead of dramatically below.
31 Aug 2019, 01:38 AM
#487
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954


That's the basis of all conscript upgrades... Only worth it if you want multiple squads of dead weight to invest heaps of resources into so they function only slightly below their counterparts instead of dramatically below.


Cons are somewhat useful in doctrines like Shock Motor heavy. One or two by the ISU help to protect AT guns and protect against flanks. Their snare is one of my favorites in the game. I don't usually get more than two because they are mostly dead weight like you say.

The seventh model helps a little in terms of survival, but nobody will pay the 100/25 to unlock it unless they're doing some kind of con spam in 1v1.

If the Soviets are going to have to pay 100/25, it should unlock a SVT upgrade like in airborne.
31 Aug 2019, 01:56 AM
#488
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 366

To me, the amount of side tech for conscripts just to make them compete is quite unappealing.

They should have the 7th man unlocked if you tech tier 4 at lease.

Edit: it feels like a nerf to those who tech directly to tier 4 going conscript builds.
31 Aug 2019, 03:32 AM
#489
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

just remove the upgrade... LMG grens and STG volks get their upgrades for free and come out much earlier than 7 man cons but apparently only axis gets freebies >.>
31 Aug 2019, 08:10 AM
#490
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

Why Guards still appears along with HT is an absolutely stupid and unnecessary function. If I need to buy an HT, I will build a T3 and buy an HT. The purchase of two Guardsmen will cost 1020 mp and 60 fuel - this is nonsense. It is completely inadequate and not worth it. Even the purchase of one Guardsman (510 mp and 30 fuel) is not worth it; his strength is not so good as to deeply weaken the construction of the T3.
31 Aug 2019, 09:24 AM
#491
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

I hope Assault Guards no longer bundle with HT

Why wouldn't they?
Its their theme and they arrive late.

It also prevents spam.
31 Aug 2019, 09:30 AM
#492
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2019, 09:24 AMKatitof

Why wouldn't they?
Its their theme and they arrive late.

It also prevents spam.


Why should they? in Mozhe they are 3CP s and cost 510mp and 30 fuel. Is at least one other elite infantry worth so much? No, and even though with Thompson they are not so great. These are just three Thompson who give more distance, Guard grenade - shit, 1st veteranism - shit, there are no alternative weapons of ability. So it turns out that this is still the same meaningless unit.
31 Aug 2019, 12:59 PM
#493
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 732

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2019, 09:24 AMKatitof

Why wouldn't they?
Its their theme and they arrive late.

It also prevents spam.

Why you think it should?I think a special unit bundle with another core unit is very stupid limit,same as Ost 2 Mechanized Group
Why I must buy a HT when I need a infantry squad?
As Ost,Why I must buy a infantry squad when I need HT?
31 Aug 2019, 13:16 PM
#494
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


Why you think it should?I think a special unit bundle with another core unit is very stupid limit,same as Ost 2 Mechanized Group
Why I must buy a HT when I need a infantry squad?
As Ost,Why I must buy a infantry squad when I need HT?

Because I do like it and I actually do use M5 in games, so its never "filler" for me.
I can see how it potentially limits aviability of ass guards themselves, but bear in mind its still a meme unit, even with thompsons, considering they are the weakest out of all soviet elite infantries and comparable exclusively MAYBE to ppsh penals.
31 Aug 2019, 13:22 PM
#495
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Assault Guards


Would suggested replacing the M5 with an M3 and adjusting cost and increasing diversity. One could then change the cost accordingly.

In addition one has to tone down the vet bonuses since they are designed for units with lower base stats.
31 Aug 2019, 13:26 PM
#496
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2019, 09:24 AMKatitof

Why wouldn't they?
Its their theme and they arrive late.

It also prevents spam.


So spam means 2 guards, or do you just make a habit of buying halftracks and losing them?

Most of us never want more than one of the halftracks, and we can get it from Tier 3 without the call-in.
31 Aug 2019, 13:45 PM
#497
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 732

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2019, 13:16 PMKatitof

Because I do like it and I actually do use M5 in games, so its never "filler" for me.
I can see how it potentially limits aviability of ass guards themselves, but bear in mind its still a meme unit, even with thompsons, considering they are the weakest out of all soviet elite infantries and comparable exclusively MAYBE to ppsh penals.

Easy to solve,reduce CP request to 1 like Cavalry Riflemen or reduce them RA to about 0.8
31 Aug 2019, 13:54 PM
#498
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I think the m5 is a bit awkward just because it's a core unit in a non skippable tier. Bundling a unit into a nother that you can build just inflates the price. If the doctrinal m5 was something more than a normal core m5 maybe but idk...
31 Aug 2019, 23:34 PM
#499
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

This might be a useless suggestion but what if Assault Guards came in a Bren Carrier instead? It's unique, only problem is I'm not sure if the Bren Carrier has a use at that point.
1 Sep 2019, 01:32 AM
#500
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 785

I would just like assault guards to have 0.97 RA like every other guards unit, instead of current 100% RA. Especially as a (mostly) CQC unit, they're really vulnerable and their veterancy kind of sucks too. Especially the vet 1 trip flare mine lmao.

Should have a grenade recharge time buff at vet 1, maybe, or a RA buff.
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