Wehrmacht September patch discussion

Give 251 simply little more HP, so it needs 3 shots of PaKs. So the price of 30 fuel would fit well, as it is now.

I was actually just thinking about this the other day, but then the problem is the flamer HT becomes too durable.

If M17/M16 for allies and 251 flamer were not so potent I would like to see a general buff to halftrack survivability to encourage their use, especially lategame, but those two upgrade paths sort of break the deal.

Why?
Nothing below 50 fuel survives more then 2 shots nor should it.

It has really bad armor and loses half HP versus a Penal in 1vs1 without PTRS. Make it better or nerf all units, you can choose.

I am speaking of maybe 20-50HP more, not much. But it would be enough.

I was actually just thinking about this the other day, but then the problem is the flamer HT becomes too durable.

If M17/M16 for allies and 251 flamer were not so potent I would like to see a general buff to halftrack survivability to encourage their use, especially lategame, but those two upgrade paths sort of break the deal.

Flamer-upgrade could come in with some nerfs, like slower speed. So it becomes more difficult to play with.

Also removing ability of Mines, also Riegelmines. If upgraded.

It has really bad armor and loses half HP versus a Penal in 1vs1 without PTRS. Make it better or nerf all units, you can choose.

Its not a frontline combat unit if its unupgraded and if its upgraded, it'll obliterate anything, PTRS penals included.
And it was just made better this patch, go read the notes.
You want it to be more durable, you'll have to put it in T3, where soviet "durable" one is and deal with the fact that field is now littered with real AT weaponry and still have it die in 2 shots, like the soviet one.
You fine with that?

You can't have very early game transport and reinforcement unit that is strong against small arms, when it arrives at a time when small arms is all there is on field.

Plus, you still didn't provided any valid reason why should it be any more durable, while ignoring the fact it arrives BEFORE AT guns do and has plenty of space in its time window.

Its not a frontline combat unit if its unupgraded and if its upgraded, it'll obliterate anything, PTRS penals included.
And it was just made better this patch, go read the notes.
You want it to be more durable, you'll have to put it in T3, where soviet "durable" one is and deal with the fact that field is now littered with real AT weaponry and still have it die in 2 shots, like the soviet one.
You fine with that?

You can't have very early game transport and reinforcement unit that is strong against small arms, when it arrives at a time when small arms is all there is on field.

Plus, you still didn't provided any valid reason why should it be any more durable, while ignoring the fact it arrives BEFORE AT guns do and has plenty of space in its time window.

I would also be fine with more HP for M5, sure. 2 hits is simply too easy to kill, game has too many path-finding bugs for that, micro often makes no difference.

Before making it 10fuel cheaper I woumd instead like to see/have littme bit more HP for the full price it has now.

Yes, it got nice buffs. Like we say in german:"Es wäre das Sahnehäupchen."

I was actually just thinking about this the other day, but then the problem is the flamer HT becomes too durable.

If M17/M16 for allies and 251 flamer were not so potent I would like to see a general buff to halftrack survivability to encourage their use, especially lategame, but those two upgrade paths sort of break the deal.

you could lower the health when upgraded and flavour text it by saying " the fuel tanks for twin flamethrowers that take up so much space you cant put guys in here anymore are pretty explosive making the vehicle squishier" and "ditto but , like, a shit ton of .50 cal ammo for all those guns"

Give 251 simply little more HP, so it needs 3 shots of PaKs. So the price of 30 fuel would fit well, as it is now.

- Give Storm-Troups (Sturmtruppen) PPsh instead of MP40.

- Give OST Pio's MP40 same stats as Sten guns of Sappeurs, increase price to 210MP.

- Give all weapon crews K98 (stats of OKW)

That would make the weapon profiles more logical.

• It's a Tier 2 Half-Track, so that doesn't matter.
  
  
• Neat idea, always wanted to see more captured tech.
  
  
• Pioneers come out at HQ while Sappers are T2 (Brits start with T1 and buy unlocks instead).
  
  
• OKW weapon crews are an outlier, but I agree most Ostheer crews should have Kar 98k's.
  

To elaborate, Weapon Crews for every other faction are practically useless with their weapons, but OKW are an outlier because their Weapon Crews use regular Volksgrenadier Kar 98's. Ostheer weapon crews should not get real damage-dealing Kar98's, but they should get the shitty useless Kar 98 (and OKW crews should too for consistency with all factions).

...
To elaborate, Weapon Crews for every other faction are practically useless with their weapons, but OKW are an outlier because their Weapon Crews use regular Volksgrenadier Kar 98's. Ostheer weapon crews should not get real damage-dealing Kar98's, but they should get the shitty useless Kar 98 (and OKW crews should too for consistency with all factions).

That information is inaccurate since it has been changed. OKW crew carry crew weapons.

That information is inaccurate since it has been changed. OKW crew carry crew weapons.

Good to know, I didn't realize it wasn't the same anymore.

Good to know, I didn't realize it wasn't the same anymore.

It was changed as bug and not as balance change.

Gren g43 spam is back on the menu boys.

The weapon-profile of Ostheers Pios is simply broken, with flamer the MP40 will do close to 0 damage at flamers max. range. And for only close-range stats their DPS is way too low in comparison to other units.

1. The problem of Ostheers Pios started when Assault-Grens were published as commander unit. (Before that Pios had way better MP40). Then Pios were nerfed, now Assault-Pios of OKW have the jop as close-range unit.

a. Make the MP40 better (maybe increase MP to 210 or reduce crew sice to 3 like in CoH1).
Or
b. Give them K98

And if they shouldn't be combat units, have bad stats, than give them Lugars.

2. The increase of HP would be a buff, that is true. But only a small one, some hits of inf and it still dies. While all other light vehicles with same price have more armor and DPS, 251 could have little bit more HP. That is the idea, and that doesn't depends on the tier. It would be a useful change. Don't start splitting tech-costs instead.

3. The different stats for same weapon blueprints are stupid. The stats of them sould be more similar to other units with same weapons. E.g.

Weapon of: crews = useless / Pios = bad / Assaultgren = ok / Stormtrouos = op

All of them have MP40? Wtf Mabye give crews K98 (OKW stats). Pios Lugar (range down to 20 so they can also be used as scouts, maybe MP40 with the 5th men upgrade). Assaultgrens stay with MP40 and Stormtroups get PPsh.

Why PPsh? Germans used them on mass and the stats are nearly as Shocks PPshs.

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Pioneers are decent at close range for an engineer unit, they are not meant to be a combat unit and they historically used MP40. They are better than RET and CE, they give sight for the MG and can approach suppressed infantry to force them to retreat. They are absolutely fine as they are now.

Gren g43 spam is back on the menu boys.

Panzergren/Stormtrooper G43 spam you mean?

Pioneers are decent at close range for an engineer unit, they are not meant to be a combat unit and they historically used MP40. They are better than RET and CE, they give sight for the MG and can approach suppressed infantry to force them to retreat. They are absolutely fine as they are now.

yea i never understood this, why CE don't have bonus sight ?

i can understand RET and re not having it cause they can equip pita/zook, but CE don't

The weapon-profile of Ostheers Pios is simply broken, with flamer the MP40 will do close to 0 damage at flamers max. range. And for only close-range stats their DPS is way too low in comparison to other units.

Can you be specific about what units you're comparing them too?

Pios are fine, any buff would absolutely need a cost increase

It has really bad armor and loses half HP versus a Penal in 1vs1 without PTRS. Make it better or nerf all units, you can choose.

I am speaking of maybe 20-50HP more, not much. But it would be enough.

the absolute STATE of axis mains. this post right here encapsulates what has been so wrong with balance feedback since community team took over.

"buff this unit I want or nerf all units"

you seriously just say that unironically? jfc.

The weapon-profile of Ostheers Pios is simply broken, with flamer the MP40 will do close to 0 damage at flamers max. range. And for only close-range stats their DPS is way too low in comparison to other units.

1. The problem of Ostheers Pios started when Assault-Grens were published as commander unit. (Before that Pios had way better MP40). Then Pios were nerfed, now Assault-Pios of OKW have the jop as close-range unit.

a. Make the MP40 better (maybe increase MP to 210 or reduce crew sice to 3 like in CoH1).
Or
b. Give them K98

And if they shouldn't be combat units, have bad stats, than give them Lugars.

2. The increase of HP would be a buff, that is true. But only a small one, some hits of inf and it still dies. While all other light vehicles with same price have more armor and DPS, 251 could have little bit more HP. That is the idea, and that doesn't depends on the tier. It would be a useful change. Don't start splitting tech-costs instead.

1. Pio is fine as they are now, cheap, decent close range dps, stock flamer, increase sight range.
2. With the buff, i highly curious that there are anyone want to hang in the contact for "some hits of infs" to finish off the FHT, with flame burning underneath. Not to mention the combination of that with doctrinal panzer tactican.

MP40 was mainly used for tank-crews and Sturmführer. Pioneers were not fighting units, sometimes they were used at the HKL (main battle line), for that we have assault pios of OKW. Normal Pios had mainly K98, Lugar and sometimes MP40.

For me it is a problem how the Pio is designed. At the moment it would be better to buff them and give 3 men like in CoH1. (2 men for equipment)

I am on my mobile phone and cant check stats. But as I know they have by far the worst MPs, (only crews have worse). And with flamer they are out of any effective range, unlike soviet Pios. And the the cheaper soviet Pio is way better than german one.

One could replace the Mp40 once upgraded with flamers with K98 with stat that are a clone of CE mosins or a bit (15%) better.