Wehrmacht September patch discussion

Panzergrenadier and Stormtrooper G43s

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Suggestions:
Increase number of weapons to 4 recalcluate DPS if needed. There is little reason for 2 difrent types of weapons that affects drop off DPS when model drop.

A more intersting solution would be to increase number of entities to 5 and to rebalance weapon accordingly.

Bunker MG 42 upgrade
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Suggestion:
1) Move the sight bonus to command bunker
2) Reduce MP cost to 100 add 50 manpower cost to MG and Medic bunker.

Tiger I

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Suggestions:
As mentioned before Imo the timing of super heavies should not be earlier since the window of opportunity for many units will be reduced. Keep CP close to current but lower the cost abit.


Spotting scopes
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The upgrade is not very cost efficient.
Suggestion: add around +5 lower the stationary bonus so that total SR remains about the same.


Supply Drop - Osttruppen Doctrine

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The ability should be compared to the UKF one which is more cost efficient.
Suggestions:
Replace HMG with mortar to increase built diverity, now one can skip either t1 or t2 and still have access to some of the building weapons.
Although not recomended on could replace the pak with soviet M-42 (call it pak35) or the RF which make more sense as aidroped weapons and further reduce price.

Command Panzer IV

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There is very little reason for CP requirement for the units since it is an inferior meduim tank.
Suggestions:
1) Remoce CP requiremnts
2) Lower XP value, the unit vet too slow
3) Make aura scale with veternacy similar to CP, DR now at 5% at vet 0 up to 20% at vet 3
4) Make the commander a toggle ability that increase the sight but increase slow down the vehicle or reduces reload.
5) Remove the vet 2 skirts and replce the armor bonus with target size bonus move vet 3 mobility bonus to vet 2 and add a speed bonus. Move weapon rotation to vet 3

Target Weak Point Ability

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Since Stug-E and Stug-G have difrent affects I would suggest calling Stug-E "Hollow Charge Shell"
Suggestions:
1) Remove TWP from Stug-E replace it with switcable AT munition at vet 1. The weapon would use direct fire have low penetration but some deflection damage.
2) Reduce vet 2 armor bonus to 15% add target size reduction, swap mobility bonus from vet 3 with relaod from vet 2.

Sdf.kfz 250 Mortar Halftrack
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Jaeger Command Squad

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The unit does not have any "command" abilities.
Suggestions:
Either redesing the unit as "semi elite" unit and remove limite to 1 or add Command abilities like longer first strike bonus aura, ability to cloak units in cover around unit or sight bonus when in cover, received accuracy bonus when cloaked...

GrW 34 Mortar
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Solid change add some faster ROF also or AOE bonus also?

Counter Barrage already has faster ROF (4.25s reload vs 5.5s reload of the normal barrage) so it should easily out-DPS enemy mortars, even the Soviet 6 men crew one. I've only done a few tests but it seemed to be a well functioning ability now.

Sd.Kfz. 222

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Main damage vs vehicles comes from 2cm so it seem a bit unnecessary...

Mostly just a standardization with the 221/223. However it does help quite a bit against Shocktroopers (with a lot better chance to pen their armor) so it will help Ostheer fight them as they do seem to struggle a bit against them.

Sd.Kfz. 251 Halftrack
Other:
Increase firing angle of flame projectors so that both can fire forward at the same time

They can already both fire forward at the same time, but only when the vehicle is perfectly facing the enemy (which it does automatically after issuing a direct attack order). Do you mean it should get even wider firing angles (not sure if the animations/model would support this) so it can do it more easily?

Panzergrenadier and Stormtrooper G43s

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Suggestions:
Increase number of weapons to 4 recalcluate DPS if needed. There is little reason for 2 difrent types of weapons that affects drop off DPS when model drop.

Elite G43s are a bit of a mess. We didn't want to give the squads 4 of them because of their incredibly high moving accuracy (they'd likely become monsters at chasing and wiping, especially Stormtroopers who can hide behind enemy lines) but removing the high moving DPS would both create yet another type of G43 rifle (we'd have 1 sniper G43, 1 medium G43 that's great on the move and 1 elite G43 that would not be great on the move, all looking the same, making things more confusing for the average player) and make them less unique/iconic weapons.

Eite G43s are a bit of a mess. We didn't want to give the squads 4 of them because of their incredibly high moving accuracy (they'd likely become monsters at chasing and wiping, especially Stormtroopers who can hide behind enemy lines) but removing the high moving DPS would both create yet another type of G43 rifle (making things more confusing for the average player) and make them less unique/iconic weapons.

You don't have to butcher the moving accuracy, just instead of 3 super high moving dps weapons + 1 normal weapon, you'd get 4 high moving dps weapons.

Counter Barrage already has faster ROF (4.25s reload vs 5.5s reload of the normal barrage) so it should easily out-DPS enemy mortars, even the Soviet 6 men crew one. I've only done a few tests but it seemed to be a well functional ability now.

Great. Maybe do the same for MHT?

Mostly just a standardization with the 221/223. However it does help quite a bit against Shocktroopers (with a lot better chance to pen their armor) so it will help Ostheer fight them as they do seem to struggle a bit against them.

I personally would be less concern about standardizing the main gun of vehicle with secondary weapon of another vehicles from another faction and more interested in standardizing the mechanics of the 2cm guns like the 222 luch and Centaur, but the change is fine.

If one want to make 222 better vs shock one can simply turn the 2cm gun into accuracy based one without little or no AOE so that it can benefit from vet bonus accuracy.

They can already both fire forward at the same time, but only when the vehicle is perfectly facing the enemy (which it does automatically after issuing a direct attack order). Do you mean it should get even wider firing angles (not sure if the animations/model would support this) so it can do it more easily?

Yes the flamer seem to be able to fire straight forward but not on the axis of vehicle so sometimes only one flamer fires.

Elite G43s are a bit of a mess. We didn't want to give the squads 4 of them because of their incredibly high moving accuracy (they'd likely become monsters at chasing and wiping, especially Stormtroopers who can hide behind enemy lines) but removing the high moving DPS would both create yet another type of G43 rifle (we'd have 1 sniper G43, 1 medium G43 that's great on the move and 1 elite G43 that would not be great on the move, all looking the same, making things more confusing for the average player) and make them less unique/iconic weapons.

I have seen many changes around the "elite" G43. One has to keep in mind that the name of the ability is not G43 but "Jaeger Light Infantry" and it does not have to provide g43 to elite infantry. It can give them other bonuses.
I find the whole 3g43+1 weapon (k-98 or MP44) thing an unnecessary complication. Either make it 2 or 4 and adjust accordingly both static and moving accuracy.

Another idea for spotting scopes that would also be more realistic would be (if possible) that the unit gain +5 sight plus more (up to current levels sight) in a cone when stationary for some time.

Hey Sanders, since we are on experimental, how about introducing my panther armor rebalance? winkwink

https://www.coh2.org/topic/91653/panther-armor-rebalance

Another idea for the 251 (and OPEL) would be to become transport medical boxes from Luftwaffe commander (or SP for OKW).

One would probably have to create the ability to drop these box after "consuming" them.

Another idea for spotting scopes that would also be more realistic would be (if possible) that the unit gain +5 sight plus more (up to current levels sight) in a cone when stationary for some time.

That's a good idea.

Alternately they could just give access to the SU-85 self spotting thing.

Hey Sanders, since we are on experimental, how about introducing my panther armor rebalance? winkwink

https://www.coh2.org/topic/91653/panther-armor-rebalance

I just checked

Panther moving accuracy 0.5x0.06 = 0.03
Churchill moving accuracy 0.75x0.05 = 0.0375

@vipper

I would love your change ideas for the stug e.
I really like the stug e but it's to inefficient.
It comes to late for an ai only role. it should come earlier OR should be able to defend itself against tanks like the t70.

@vipper

I would love your change ideas for the stug e.
I really like the stug e but it's to inefficient.
It comes to late for an ai only role. it should come earlier OR should be able to defend itself against tanks like the t70.

Thanks

IMO one of the biggest problems in OST late game is the lack of TDs. Only Panthers can penetrate Heavys. But Panther ROF and DPS are horrible to be a TD. This is why you only see Panthers in 4v4s.

When the game came out back in 2013, the only 2 Heavys were IS2 and ISU152. There were no need of a dedicated TD in the axis roster. Now in 2019 you have to deal with KV2, KV1, Churchils (and variants), Pershing, IS2 and ISU152.

My suggestion is: make stug3 similar to SU85 in terms of DPS, RANGE, PEN and ROF, and increase FU cost of course.

IMO one of the biggest problems in OST late game is the lack of TDs. Only Panthers can penetrate Heavys. But Panther ROF and DPS are horrible to be a TD. This is why you only see Panthers in 4v4s.

When the game came out back in 2013, the only 2 Heavys were IS2 and ISU152. There were no need of a dedicated TD in the axis roster. Now in 2019 you have to deal with KV2, KV1, Churchils (and variants), Pershing, IS2 and ISU152.

My suggestion is: make stug3 similar to SU85 in terms of DPS, RANGE, PEN and ROF, and increase FU cost of course.

OST already has all the tools in the game. If you feel an urge to have a long range TD get an elefant. Jaeger Armor is currently top 2v2+ doctrine for OST. Other factions lack more basic tools like snipers or non-doc rocket arty.

Stug should not be buffed over what it currently is.

Also pershing dies from a wet fart

Elite G43s are a bit of a mess. We didn't want to give the squads 4 of them because of their incredibly high moving accuracy (they'd likely become monsters at chasing and wiping, especially Stormtroopers who can hide behind enemy lines) but removing the high moving DPS would both create yet another type of G43 rifle (we'd have 1 sniper G43, 1 medium G43 that's great on the move and 1 elite G43 that would not be great on the move, all looking the same, making things more confusing for the average player) and make them less unique/iconic weapons.

What about replacing elite G43 upgrade with 1-2 infrared STGs? I mean in the PGs case I believe for the average player it may be a bit confusing how a semi auto rifle is supposed to be better than an assault rifle, vampir STGs on the other hand would be a clear upgrade. (I know, they were late war, but they were primarily used on the eastern front)

As for storms, I would love to see 4x STG package returning in place of the G43s. The STGs, thanks to their longer effective range, were generally much better when used with tactical advance and safer to use too.
(also, fix the smoke nade/vehicle detection hotkey conflict at last plz)

@modteam: does the tigerace also benefit fromm the changes to the tiger1?

What about replacing elite G43 upgrade with 1-2 infrared STGs? I mean in the PGs case I believe for the average player it may be a bit confusing how a semi auto rifle is supposed to be better than an assault rifle, vampir STGs on the other hand would be a clear upgrade. (I know, they were late war, but they were primarily used on the eastern front)

As for storms, I would love to see 4x STG package returning in place of the G43s. The STGs, thanks to their longer effective range, were generally much better when used with tactical advance and safer to use too.
(also, fix the smoke nade/vehicle detection hotkey conflict at last plz)

The idea isn't bad. Giving them different weapons would be more logical, instead of one blue-print with a huge mass of different stats.

e.g. MP40: crew's version is crap, Pio's version is less crap, Assaul-grens is ok, Storm-grens is very good.

-> give Crews a K98 (as OKW)
-> Give Pios maybe also 2 K98, one MP40, one Lugar.
-> Assault-Grens stay with MP40
-> Storm-Grens get PPshs (Germans often used PPsh on the eastern front)

I think it's time to accept the G43 option for PzGrens is just not going to work. Even with the update they're still not worth it, and given they start with Stgs it's just not appealing to go for semi-auto rifles with marginal better long-range DPS.

I think the option of giving them IR Stgs is probably the way to go.

I think it's time to accept the G43 option for PzGrens is just not going to work. Even with the update they're still not worth it, and given they start with Stgs it's just not appealing to go for semi-auto rifles with marginal better long-range DPS.

I think the option of giving them IR Stgs is probably the way to go.

It always felt silly anyway, since they're already a mid range squad, and you already have a long-range specialist. There's very little reason to get a mid-long range squad given the tools they already have

IR stgs makes sense, although we should be careful about timing. Pgrens come a lot earlier than Obers

It always felt silly anyway, since they're already a mid range squad, and you already have a long-range specialist. There's very little reason to get a mid-long range squad given the tools they already have

IR stgs makes sense, although we should be careful about timing. Pgrens come a lot earlier than Obers

Absolutely agree on all counts. IR Stgs are incredibly powerful, the last thing we want is an IR StG blob roaming the field at minute 5.

It always felt silly anyway, since they're already a mid range squad, and you already have a long-range specialist. There's very little reason to get a mid-long range squad given the tools they already have

IR stgs makes sense, although we should be careful about timing. Pgrens come a lot earlier than Obers

It should probably be locked 'till BP3, IR STGs are high tech stuff and the tech requirement could reflect that.