September Balance Patch preview [SPBP] - general discussion

The patch is looking good so far but I must add 4 things.

1. Remove smoke from churchill (there is no reason for such a high health and armor unit to have it) or at the very least limit it to 1 like every other heavy tank in the game.

2. Brummbars accuracy needs some improvement (I find myself having to manual fire everytime due to how bad the auto aim is)

3. M8A1 motor even with the tweaks still does too much damage.

4. Soviet Field HQ should be replaced with the buildable HQ entirely. There are some truly massive buildings in the game and when converted just cannot be balanced in any shape or form as there is no decap option.

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2. Brummbars accuracy needs some improvement (I find myself having to manual fire everytime due to how bad the auto aim is)

Brummbar bad acc is intentional, its designed as a high APM high reward unit, but the game doesnt tell the player of it.

Thompson SMG Assault Guards! And they keep the halftrack! Awesome.

Nerfs t2 cost because claims "to reduce the rush to conscript builds and T70"

Yet t2 is still retardedly dumb with a failure of a machinegun and a chronic inability to deal damage... somehow the balance team forgot to make T2 more viable when nerfing its cost...

FFS balance team... T2 conscript/support team builds exist and SIMPLY DONT WORK outside of doctrines... stop gauging the factions performance from the strength of T1 and take a look at the clearly underperforming T2

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Another thing to note is mobilize reserves is still borked with a fuel and manpower cost on top of the muni cost.... just remove that upgrade or make t4 cheaper + tie it with tech

The patch is looking good so far but I must add 4 things.

1. Remove smoke from churchill (there is no reason for such a high health and armor unit to have it) or at the very least limit it to 1 like every other heavy tank in the game.

Maybe because the churchill is soo slow and has no ability to rescue itself from bad situations unlike mediums which have speed + 1 other ability for escape

The patch is looking good so far but I must add 4 things.

1. Remove smoke from churchill (there is no reason for such a high health and armor unit to have it) or at the very least limit it to 1 like every other heavy tank in the game.

A 19 pop cap, 165 fuel, latest tech unit doesn't allowed to have some utilities because it is belong to the allies ?

The patch is looking good so far but I must add 4 things.

1. Nerf Allies
2. Buff Axis
3. Nerf Allies
4. Nerf Allies

The abridged edition - glad to see one buff in there for variety...oh, wait.......

A 19 pop cap, 165 fuel, latest tech unit doesn't allowed to have some utilities because it is belong to the allies ?

No, it's because it has highest HP in game ,decent armor, and is effective against both infantry and vehicles, all while being relatively cheap even after the nerf. It should either have it's base performance nerfed, or lose it's utilities.

It's amazing how far the balance team have gone to avoid actually touching the Churchill's performance, same goes for Volksgrenadiere.

Maybe because the churchill is soo slow and has no ability to rescue itself from bad situations unlike mediums which have speed + 1 other ability for escape

Mediums have low chance to pen churchill...
Panther needs to get in mid range to pen churchill...
I like how such armor is considered only 'decent' ...

Smoke is just so extra when it already have good vet buffs.
At vet3 it can rotate and reposition like a t70...and vetting churchill is much easier because of its nature...

No, it's because it has highest HP in game ,decent armor, and is effective against both infantry and vehicles, all while being relatively cheap even after the nerf. It should either have it's base performance nerfed, or lose it's utilities.

It's amazing how far the balance team have gone to avoid actually touching the Churchill's performance, same goes for Volksgrenadiere.

Reduce churchill main gun to 120, revert pop to 18.
Problem solve.
Ukf will use it more as soaker and will want to build more AT.

I guess give main gun a bit more pen, to get more favourably rng. maybe a +5 to all ranges.

It's amazing how far the balance team have gone to avoid actually touching the Churchill's performance, same goes for Volksgrenadiere.

Because making changes to "secondary" unit stats (like cooldowns, build time, abilities etc.) has proven to be a very good tool to balance units by adjusting their availability or timing, without having to nerf their performance. One major advantage with this is that it allows for units to remain strong to keep them attractive to use, but helps prevent them from being deployed in quick succession and/or in overwhelming numbers.

In the last 2 patches units like Pathfinders, Assault Grenadiers, Valentine and Jaeger Light Infantry all triggered a vast amount of complaints after their initial timings or performance changes about overperformance, and ultimately they have been fixed without touching their performance at all just by limiting their availability (I have barely ever seen any complaints about those units since the follow-up patches). These small changes are usually way more effective than people initially think.

As for the Churchill specifically, I personally do not believe a single Churchill is overperforming (except that grenade ability they had at vet 0), and that the unit is only really problematic when deployed in overwhelming numbers (~3 at once). So from my point of view, there is no reason to overly punish players using 1 or max 2 Churchills in a diverse build by nerfing the unit's primary performance.

So for now, availability will be more limited to see if that alone works, and if ultimately it doesn't work, performance can always still be nerfed later. But the first option is preferred.

in my opinion the churchill tank only needs a nerf in the penetration capacity in its cannon

in my opinion the churchill tank only needs a nerf in the penetration capacity in its cannon

And its not going to get it, because it already has a bad gun, you will not find second vehicle that is generalist at that price point with lower penetration in game.

FHT buff performance (since it needs improvements and fixing which were the elements that were missed in the last patch).

In turn nerf veterancy.

Changes for OKWs Flak Half Track.

Move Vet 2 to Vet 0 (to default). This is a quick fix for performance. Nerf all the vet bonuses.

Add something Vet 2 for the removal/exchange.

And its not going to get it, because it already has a bad gun, you will not find second vehicle that is generalist at that price point with lower penetration in game.

It is undeniable that the high survival capacity and being able to get more than one churchill makes it very powerful and does not have a bad cannon, has good damage and penetration and that should not be in a tank that resists like a tiger.

not for 185 fuel.

or a little nerf in your penetration or just being able to get only one

It is undeniable that the high survival capacity and being able to get more than one churchill makes it very powerful and does not have a bad cannon, has good damage and penetration and that should not be in a tank that resists like a tiger.

not for 185 fuel.

or a little nerf in your penetration or just being able to get only one

That's exactly how it should perform for its price point.
It got regular medium tank gun. It doesn't cost as much as tiger, because specifically it does not have tigers gun capabilities. Its firepower is nothing exceptional and Sander already explained why it will never be touched.

That's exactly how it should perform for its price point.
It got regular medium tank gun. It doesn't cost as much as tiger, because specifically it does not have tigers gun capabilities. Its firepower is nothing exceptional and Sander already explained why it will never be touched.

a medium gun in a tank with very high armor and health for only 185 fuel already makes it exceptional even more as the penetration and you know how rng works in this game.

Are you going to tell me that you have never destroyed tigers with just one churchil? and a churchill always has a firefly behind.

if they will never modify the unit then talking about this is in vain but you greatly underestimate the power of the cannon

a medium gun in a tank with very high armor and health for only 185 fuel already makes it exceptional even more as the penetration and you know how rng works in this game.

The constant buffs KV-1 is getting proves you wrong by default.

Are you going to tell me that you have never destroyed tigers with just one churchil? and a churchill always has a firefly behind.

If you are losing tigers to churchills, that's L2P issue.
If churchill has FF behind it, that's because churchills gun is inadequate against what it goes against, which further proves its fine.

if you are never going to touch it then talking about this is in vain but you greatly underestimate the power of the cannon

No, you are greatly overestimating it.
Its regular cromwell gun, cromwell is nothing exceptional in terms of firepower.

The constant buffs KV-1 is getting proves you wrong by default.


If you are losing tigers to churchills, that's L2P issue.
If churchill has FF behind it, that's because churchills gun is inadequate against what it goes against, which further proves its fine.


No, you are greatly overestimating it.
Its regular cromwell gun, cromwell is nothing exceptional in terms of firepower.

kv1 and churchills should be comparable but in the game one is crap and the other works great, don't make straw men.


I destroy tiger with churchills *.

Imagine when I take more than one, or even if I carry a firefly behind.

You've done it, seen it, played it and you know it, you're not dumb.

To say that carrying a firefly behind a churchill demonstrates how bad a cannon is like saying that the tiger is bad because it needs infantry with faust because otherwise any light AT vehicle could destroy it, again do not make straw men.

again obvious that that chromwell cannon is in a very resistant chassis that is capable of destroying heavy tanks with many shots, will not penetrate many shots? Yes, will you deflect many shots? Yes, can you take the tiger 1 vs 1 to the limit? quite provable.

I reiterate what makes the churchill great is the capacity of very high armor and health with a medium cannon that can have the trouble of taking time and penetrating and destroying tanks, with a very good price of fuel and the ability to take more than one.

no more straw men pls

Actually the kv1 is perfectly fine after the buff too mg (if not too strong)

it needs 7 shells to die (as much as a tiger) , it repairs much faster than Churchill, it has more frontal armor and is much cheaper