Riflemen need a buff or Volks need a nerf?

It is unfair to straight up compare Volksgrenadiers to Conscripts or Grenadiers.

OKW has been designed with worse support weapons, so Volksgrenadiers are meant to be able to fight better independently than their counterparts. They are meant to be slightly more cost effective than other infantry.

Conscripts and especially Grenadiers however, are designed to be supplemented by support weapons.

I have been pointing out this is why Tommies shouldn't be nerfed or at least with a nerf buff the stuff UKF are missing (flamer or flame nades, snare on mainline, mortar or normal snipe aim time).

But then all I get in return is a bunch of vacuum stats on how upgraded Tommies fair vs axis infantry or how their grenade is OP vs MG's.

People need to look at faction balance as a whole not just specific things like Jackson or Tommies etc. But it's a common problem on these forums

no give them the mp40 upgrade from fire doc , u know like vcoh

Thats literally the worst AI upgrade u can give them (srsly can u pick a worse one). Essentially making volks only effective on cqc maps, any other engagement or map they have to rely on ther bolts against upgraded allied inf, ther guna be stomped so hard its not even funny.

Regarding volks cost, ther perfectly fine as we take in what sander said, but the only area i disagree with is cons with support weps. IMO even grens arnt that good either but there well supported by the mg42 and panzergrens which makes up for them, but its not the same when you go with cons which have a much worse MG and have to rely on docs to call in good inf.

The problem is high cost.
280mp and one model 28. This drains your mp when you fend off volk for 250/25 mp.

Also, additional costs are needed to access the grenades and the bar. Sand bags in the doctrine. And every new rifleman does not have a faust. He needs vet1.

However, the volks also have sand bags, flame grenades. And access to the STG and Faust opens when T2 is built.

Grenadiers would like a word with you.

Grenadiers would like a word with you.

The grenadiers are happy. They cost 240. At the same time:

1. Have a faust from the beginning without vet.
2. After completing phase 1, or T2 receives lmg (which the better then doctrine m1919)
3. Also get rifle grenades.
4. They also have a first-aid kit
5. Can build a bunker.

No special access costs. T2, and the phases you open in any case, this is a linear development.

But the Riflemans do not receive a bar or grenades, or a first-aid kit, or faust after linear development (calls of the captain or lieutenant) they must go at special costs. When Riflemans are already expensive. This is one of the reasons why the USF is behind and showing the worst results in tournaments.

NO SPECIAL ACCES COST

Well I guess tier 1 is free now ?

4. They also have a first-aid kit

Are you really so desperate to use the vet 1 medkit for a comparison? The one that people barely ever use because it's super inefficient and takes ages to apply?

The fact that you apparently have no idea that Grenadiers are remarkably expensive to reinforce (30 mp), that you don't know which tech the LMG is locked behind and that you think Grenadiers come free leads me to suspect you are just another USF fanboy incapable of coming up with decent arguments.

The grenadiers are happy. They cost 240. At the same time:

1. Have a faust from the beginning without vet.
2. After completing phase 1, or T2 receives lmg (which the better then doctrine m1919)
3. Also get rifle grenades.
4. They also have a first-aid kit
5. Can build a bunker.

No special access costs. T2, and the phases you open in any case, this is a linear development.

But the Riflemans do not receive a bar or grenades, or a first-aid kit, or faust after linear development (calls of the captain or lieutenant) they must go at special costs. When Riflemans are already expensive. This is one of the reasons why the USF is behind and showing the worst results in tournaments.

Grenadiers are sad and thrown to a corner everyone looks at their 240MP price tag and forgets hilarious 30MP reinforce cost while being unable to survive any for of explosion with their 4 man squad. And need to build T1 to be accessible.

1. Fair enough
2. Can't get double LMG like USF/UKF which provides greater DPS.
3. Which can easily be dodged and can't fire to the range where allies generally force you fight (which is indeed close range)
4.Which doesn't even make a squads health to full in many occurances and cost 15 muni and takes a ridicilous time to apply and during this time they can't fight and they need to be stationary unlike the super good Brtisih healing on IS.
5.Which takes 150 MP and doesn't have acces to invaluable sandbags.

If you are okay making Grens 280MP (heck even 290) while allowing them

(Pick two of those)
Able to pick 2nd lmg in late game
5 Man (with a 35fuel ugrade)
Drop a nade at their feet
Have a cover combat bonus
Have semi-automatic rifles like Rifles
45 Muni arty strike smoke

then all the axis fanboys will smile with tears and say "That is beautiful"

And you will think oh that is absurd.
Then you realise that is what grens are facing each day.
(Well ignoring team weapons and stuff but that can also be discussed)

Grenadiers are sad and thrown to a corner everyone looks at their 240MP price tag and forgets hilarious 30MP reinforce cost while being unable to survive any for of explosion with their 4 man squad. And need to build T1 to be accessible.

1. Fair enough
2. Can't get double LMG like USF/UKF which provides greater DPS.
3. Which can easily be dodged and can't fire to the range where allies generally force you fight (which is indeed close range)
4.Which doesn't even make a squads health to full in many occurances and cost 15 muni and takes a ridicilous time to apply and during this time they can't fight and they need to be stationary unlike the super good Brtisih healing on IS.
5.Which takes 150 MP and doesn't have acces to invaluable sandbags.

If you are okay making Grens 280MP (heck even 290) while allowing them

(Pick two of those)
Able to pick 2nd lmg in late game
5 Man (with a 35fuel ugrade)
Drop a nade at their feet
Have a cover combat bonus
Have semi-automatic rifles like Rifles
45 Muni arty strike smoke

then all the axis fanboys will smile with tears and say "That is beautiful"

And you will think oh that is absurd.
Then you realise that is what grens are facing each day.
(Well ignoring team weapons and stuff but that can also be discussed)

Please tell me that this text is just your joke.

"Can't get double LMG like USF / UKF which provides greater DPS."

1) Lies. Riflemans cannot take a double LMG. You can take only one from the racks. You only have a second slot. And only paratroopers can buy a double lmg, but they are even more expensive. Are you not going to compare the standard infantry 240 mp, with the doctrine paratroopers?

"then all the axis fanboys will smile with tears and say "That is beautiful"

Of course, then it would be possible to play quite easily.

USF Army
1. Choose a special doctrine. (Ostheer - dont need)
2. You wait 2-3 cp for access to m1919 (Ostheer - do not, just go to a linear develop)
3. USF pays 70 munis (Ostheer pays 60 munis)
4. At the same time, m1919 is worse than mg34

"I want a double lmg for my grenadiers"
"I want an easy game - click-click - the enemy squad is killed"

1) Lies. Riflemans cannot take a double LMG. You can take only one from the racks. You only have a second slot. And only paratroopers can buy a double lmg, but they are even more expensive. Are you not going to compare the standard infantry 240 mp, with the doctrine paratroopers?

Please enlighten us, what type of weapon is the BAR?

Or atleast, what role did it serve in the US army in ww2?

again riley ignoring anyone that bring a fair argument

so are green tier 0 now yes or not ?

1) Lies.

Well after all i wrote and mentioned you just come with this and have no real answer for my points. And also you have shown your true self as a USF fanboy.

Good luck in your life with this ignorant and self centered attitude.
HOAH USA FUK YEAH !

Please tell me that this text is just your joke.

"Can't get double LMG like USF / UKF which provides greater DPS."

1) Lies. Riflemans cannot take a double LMG. You can take only one from the racks.

And that is a real lie . Go and try for yourself.

Please enlighten us, what type of weapon is the BAR?

Or atleast, what role did it serve in the US army in ww2?

Well, it's closer to an assault Rifle than an LMG.

FG42 = BAR = IR STG44

1919 = LMG34/42 = Bren = DP

Well after all i wrote and mentioned you just come with this and have no real answer for my points. And also you have shown your true self as a USF fanboy.

Good luck in your life with this ignorant and self centered attitude.
HOAH USA FUK YEAH !

And what did you write? You wrote that you would smile if you had 2 lmg. Maybe you're a big fan of the axis? and also complain that the first-aid kit and rifle grenades are not effective. This is not an argument. I can also say Riflemans grenades are not effective, the bar is uncomfortable over long distances and similar words.

In favor of my words says the high cost of Riflemans.
Special expenses for grenades, then for a bar, and if you need LMG, then choose doctrine, while m1919 is worse and more expensive than mg34.

There are also 0 win usf in anniversary classic and a terrible performance at the 2vs2 Masters cup. And if I'm talking about these real problems, and you really don't like it, then you are furious axis fans who are accustomed to an easy game.

Riley u seems more like a fan boy to me, u keep ignoring the fact that green comes at tier 1, not tier 0, saying they come with no cost is beyond absurd, and btw did u really count the med kit ? what are cons op cause they have mine flares ?

Well, it's closer to an assault Rifle than an LMG.

FG42 = BAR = IR STG44

1919 = LMG34/42 = Bren = DP

Actually even Rifleman say (when they have a bar) "Get this LMG up front in center (???)"

Riley u seems more like a fan boy to me, u keep ignoring the fact that green comes at tier 1, not tier 0, saying they come with no cost is beyond absurd, and btw did u really count the med kit ? what are cons op cause they have mine flares ?

I ignore stupid statements. Sorry if it's too rude or if it violates the rules of the forum. You also ignore the 5 points that I quoted.

If you compare the opening of the T1 with the unlocking of the racks, then try to play until the late game without t1. This is not a special expense

Master of arguments.

And what did you write? You wrote that you would smile if you had 2 lmg. Maybe you're a big fan of the axis? and also complain that the first-aid kit and rifle grenades are not effective. This is not an argument. I can also say Riflemans grenades are not effective, the bar is uncomfortable over long distances and similar words.

In favor of my words says the high cost of Riflemans.
Special expenses for grenades, then for a bar, and if you need LMG, then choose doctrine, while m1919 is worse and more expensive than mg34.

There are also 0 win usf in anniversary classic and a terrible performance at the 2vs2 Masters cup. And if I'm talking about these real problems, and you really don't like it, then you are furious axis fans who are accustomed to an easy game.

In the first of my comments i gave you reasonable things and SAID imagine grens with 290 mp and allied stuff like double mgs etc. I never mentioned or said "I want double MG42 for my grens". You just made it up from nowhere and called me a liar.

And for your MG34 statement over and over again. - IT IS MG42

And for your 2v2 tournament statement - It is not the USF that is being weak it is UKF/SOV combo being too powerful and completing each others weaknesses greatly.Also note that player did weird stuff like going both cap and leu before the major yet USF is still a big powerhouse in 1v1s.

I may even join you for 270MP - 27 reinforce Rifles but we can not see the consquences of those changes. Because even with a maxim from a soviet ally rifleman will find it even easier to close up on the axis infantry and decimate them with their M1s. Or think 270 MP rifles with airborne company throwing you x1 pathfinders + x1 RE + x2 rifleman.

Lastly, I am not an axis fanboy but ignoring allied infantry advantage is pure blindness.

The grenadiers are happy. They cost 240. At the same time:

1. Have a faust from the beginning without vet.
2. After completing phase 1, or T2 receives lmg (which the better then doctrine m1919)
3. Also get rifle grenades.
4. They also have a first-aid kit
5. Can build a bunker.

No special access costs. T2, and the phases you open in any case, this is a linear development.

But the Riflemans do not receive a bar or grenades, or a first-aid kit, or faust after linear development (calls of the captain or lieutenant) they must go at special costs. When Riflemans are already expensive. This is one of the reasons why the USF is behind and showing the worst results in tournaments.

They cost 240, but have the highest reinforce cost per model for any starting mainline due to their 4-model size (because UKF-IS reinforce cost is based on bolstered size, not starting size).

1. The faust is available at T0/Vet 0, because it's literally the only reliable source of AT until T2. The MG42 has almost zero pen without it's vet 1 (and muni cost) ability, and the Pak/Shrecks are locked behind BP1/T2 respectively. Without the faust, any early vehicle would be an almost instant GG, short of expert mine usage.

2. By roughly 0.2 to 0.3 dps at all ranges, yes, the LMG42 is better. But it's also on a 4 man squad, and usually fights 5-6 model squads, whereas the M1919 fights 4 model squads from a 5 model squad. I.e. the MG42 needs to do more DPS, since it's fighting higher HP squads.

3. This is a trade-off, imo. Riflenades have more range, but less damage. They also have a larger minimum range. That said, riflenades are locked behind BP1.

4. It's pretty awful, though, in terms of cost-effectiveness.

5. There's limited usefulness on the bunker. I usually build one in my base to heal, and that's about it. I'd much rather be able to build sandbags, even if it was doc-locked.

I ignore stupid statements. Sorry if it's too rude or if it violates the rules of the forum. You also ignore the 5 points that I quoted.

If you compare the opening of the T1 with the unlocking of the racks, then try to play until the late game without t1. This is not a special expense

Master of arguments.

??? so are u saying osther and axis have mandatory more expensive things ?
well thank u, for finally understanding this

btw im comparing the tier 1 to buying tier 1, don't try to flip the argument, green are tier 1 unit rifle are tier 0

1 the faust require the tier 1 and they have it cause of the clown car

2 the cal 30 is 3% worse wow, guess who can equip the bar together with an LMG ?

3 rifle nade come after 40 fu to tech

4 first aid LOL not even gonna respond

5 the reason they can build bunker is a mystery to me too, mmhh historical accuracy (same reason IS get trenches ?)