Riflemen need a buff or Volks need a nerf?

Again with the over exaggerations.

They can only contest one type of more expensive Allied mainline infantry, that isn't really that much more expensive (and even then Rifles pay for their potential, and not so much for their base stats) and only under ideal circumstances. They generally lose against Infantry Sections (and lose badly against Bolstered ones) and against Penals on all ranges.

well, as long as they are only beating THE independent infantry squad and their closest counterpart i suppose thats fine really. granted, you asre correct, they dont quite beat tommies nor penals but they can contest them with maneuvering, however thats due to the stg.

They also do not blow Conscripts out of the water. They have slightly more DPS (~11% close, up to ~28% far) while having slightly better target size (1 vs 1.09) but Cons have Oorah to help mitigate that. STG44 upgrade isn't any more powerful than the SVTs, PPSh-41s or 7th man upgrades.

a 20mu sprint (normal sprint is 10mu, just to set the stage on how grossly inefficient conscripts are) doesnt do a whole lot to mitigate their hard loss to volks, seeing as when they are sprinting they atre taking shots and not giving them and volks are already going to beat them... so im not quite sure how oorah helps at all there. close in so the STGs can tear you up quicker? take cover only to be burned out?
also if memory serves me ppshs dont increase long range dps. they lower it. its a trade off upgrade. further more if stgs are no more powerful than the 7th man im absouletly dumbfounded as to why one comes with the first tech and the other after max tech. if anything the later should be leaps and bounds more powerful given the cons have been on the recieving end of the upgrade that "isnt anymore powerful" for most of the game (while already losing to volks without the upgrade)

also worth noting, the ppsh and svt are doctrinal, and i have always maintained that doctrinal solutions to core issues are not solutions, and i would say that for 10mp more (effectivly no impact on field control) being able to ensure victory in combat at all ranges is a core issue. if volks can beat rifles at long range utilizing relative positioning at a 30mp difference i fail to see why volks should be out DPSing cons at all ranges for only 10mp (even if its only 11%-28% better, seeing as its only ~4% price difference...)

perhaps the issue with volks is the absolute giant power spike they get from their first tech getting at (minimum values here)350mp and 40 fuel that cons pay 845mp and 205 fuel (since the stg is no more powerful than the 7th man, i figured they can share the same space for the "upgrade" slot)for. comparatively, given the many shared jobs (snare, build cover, cheap to reinforce, flame projectile) when comparing the units and how much it requires to reach their full potential "extremely efficient" does seem to suit. throw in a nickle get a fully kited volks squad, throw in a quarter for a fully kitted "no more powerful" conscript. all for 10mp difference per unit. granted i didnt account for the 20mu sprint that totally makes up for losing at all ranges most of the time...

Volks are more cost effective than Conscripts yes, again per design, and again perhaps slightly too much, but there is nothing here that indicates they are extremely cost efficient.

well its a failed design. and 10mp increase in price isnt going to make it good design. volks will ALWAYS have a stellar starting CQB unit to support, they will ALWAYS have the option to support their infantry with an MG, they will ALWAYS have the ability to heal on the front (sturm med kit, self heal, med truck) they will ALWAYS have incredibly potent AI elite infantry to support them but being extremely efficient makes the rest gravy. they remain independent not because they dont have support, because they dont NEED it. this is supposed to be a game about combined arms and tactics, a unit who by design makes combined arms unnecessary is bad design and part why i believe volks are extremely efficient.

additionally, if cons are not to be efficient, im not entirely sure what the purpose of them is. i mean we knwo they are most certainly NOT efficient, in orders of combat, utility or resources needed to make them reach their full potential but like.... as long as they are not efficient the units in their divergent tiers need to be over efficient to compensate and all that does is leave an entire unit, a supposed backbone of the faction as a troll unit.
cons should be able to contest volks to some degree or they are useless against 50% of the factions they play against. no amount of sprinting will change that either. no matter how much they extra yell costs.

So couple things I learned so far:

Volks vet is much better than Riflemen and it comes sooner.

Riflmen have to vet up to get something they should have anyway (AT snare) and get no combat bonuses until Vet 2 which again is a very slow process.

Riflemen are less effective than Volks at long range, although this isn't really surprising.

You know maybe the solution is just to give them the snare already then add an actual combat bonus at Vet 1?

I've always thought Strumpioneers shouldn't be a starting unit either. Should be a T2 unit like Royal Engineers which aren't nearly as good but for some reason they're a Platoon CP unit.

So couple things I learned so far:

Volks vet is much better than Riflemen and it comes sooner.

Riflmen have to vet up to get something they should have anyway (AT snare) and get no combat bonuses until Vet 2 which again is a very slow process.

Riflemen are less effective than Volks at long range, although this isn't really surprising.

You know maybe the solution is just to give them the snare already then add an actual combat bonus at Vet 1?

I've always thought Strumpioneers shouldn't be a starting unit either. Should be a T2 unit like Royal Engineers which aren't nearly as good but for some reason they're a Platoon CP unit.

Volk vet kinda compensates for the lesser upgrades they get, However vet is free, where as 2 bars are 120 munis vs 60 for stgs

At snares being vet isn't that bad, rifles vet3 would probably have the same stats but you would need to pay fuel for it as an alternative, just look at cons.

Rifles are about average at every range most of the game. They are relatively survivable, but they never do a particularly large amount of damage for the associated costs, except at very close range < 10, they outperform other rifle armed units there.

Ex. Compare an lmg rifle to a gren, Grens get better offensive vet and a 60 muni lmg that does the same damage as rifles. At vet 3 grens are doing 23.48 damage vs 21.7 damage. But more hp and RA means rifles can probably win, even though they aren't really outperforming gren models who do 50% more damage than an unupgraded rifleman.r

Rifles should have their stats adjusted so they can be less of an okay at every range and more of a -this is how you use rifles fight at mid range. It could also help to give officers a more defined combat role that isn't the same as rifles just slightly better

So couple things I learned so far:

Volks vet is much better than Riflemen and it comes sooner.

Riflmen have to vet up to get something they should have anyway (AT snare) and get no combat bonuses until Vet 2 which again is a very slow process.

Riflemen are less effective than Volks at long range, although this isn't really surprising.

You know maybe the solution is just to give them the snare already then add an actual combat bonus at Vet 1?

I've always thought Strumpioneers shouldn't be a starting unit either. Should be a T2 unit like Royal Engineers which aren't nearly as good but for some reason they're a Platoon CP unit.

yea no are an idiot, u learned nothing, rifle have better vet tan volks I posted it 3 time already y with the vet bonuses u keep ignoring it

Ur opinions value nothing here as u are full blown fan boy who ignores stats and invents patch changes

Rifle have same dps as volks at long range as showed before, u keep ignoring it cause u are a fan boy again

RE cost 210 mp , sturm cost 300 mp again I think u lack the basic human features to compare numbers u don’t understand that 2>1 so u make mistakes like saying volks have better vet when they have 0.77 RA at vet 5 whole rifle have 0.61 at vet 3 and that RE should be better than sturm when they cost 90 less mp