KW-1 needs a closer look

With all the good late buffs to Bulldozer Sherman, Ostwind, StuG III G, KW-8 and KW-2 that made them useable again, its time to have a look at another underused tank: The KW-1. It's pretty obvious that this doctrinal tank would never be picked if the other two doctrinal options of similar tier and cost KW-8 and T34/85 would be in the same doctrine. But the real shame is, that even the non-doctrinal T34/76 is the better choice in nearly all cases.

Lets keep in mind, that you get about 1,5x T34/76 for a single KW-1 (fuel+population), but a single T34/76 is already better in AT and AI.

AI: Main gun is pretty much the same with slightly higher ROF for KW-1. T34 Infantry-Damage is much higher nevertheless because of the MG damage buff of the T34. Way more accleration and speed means also it is better at kitting, pursuing and escaping. Conclusion: T34 is really good at killing infantry, KW-1 is not.

AT: As I already said the main gun on KW-1 is the same with slightly higher ROF. Its worthlesss nevertheless, because you need to flank with this gun to penetrate. Thats something the T34 can do plus it has the ram ability which can come in handy from time to time when you attacking a bigger tank with multiple units. Conclusion: Speed and ram ability makes the T34 much more flexible when it comes to AT.

Endurance: Including the damage reduction the KW-1 has the same health pool as 1,5x T,34/76 but it has more armor indeed. Still its not enough. Even a Shrek at max range has still a 59% penetration chance, not speaking about PAKs, Panther and other doctrinal threads with high penetration it has to face.

Conclusion: Health + decent armor is its only pro after it was moved from call-in to tech, but its just not enough to justify slow speed and such low damage output. Compared with a churchill, which should fit the same role, its not only that a KW-1 can take 3 hits less. Its about less penetration, about the missing smoke screen, about the missing grenades and about the overall worse AI damage. Endurance means nothing if you can't dish out some damage or bring some utility to the field at least.

Proposal:
- don't change AT performance but bring its AI to the level of a single T34 by buffing MG damage to same stats
- for utility: exchange Vet1 ability "secure mode" with "inspire" as it was already done for KW-2 / KW-8
- for some more utility: add a Vet-0 smoke shell or AI supression ability (useable only for mun of course)

This changes are nothing that would make it op, but it would clearly give soviet some unique utility in this tank. The buff to AI damage (->MG) would further define its role as an infantry support tank. Remember its not good at kiting.

Agree. But instead of inspire it should just get vet 0 smoke IMO. The secure mode ability is fitting for KV1 and inspire is more suitable for high damage tanks like the KV8 and KV2.

Good thoughts, can keep his armor and equate the gun and machine guns to the T-34 characteristics. And pick it up as a breakthrough tank, as it was designed. Add a smoke round (like cromwell), maybe a F-1 grenade throw, an "inspiration" for infantry as a veteran ability. KV crews also equipped themselves with lighting guns - maybe they could invent the ability around it. AA machine gun would also be good, but there is no chance of his appearance.

I think instead Secure ability, some sort of Hull down will be usefull it also good fit to tank history, where in early stage of war even immobilized KV-1 could fight pretty well, due to it's armor.
If tank is hull down he become immobilize, but get more ROF, more damage reduction and his turret mg could supress infantry. After ability turned off it has the same debuff to movement speed as su-85 when Focused mode is deactivated.

Main problem is that there only 2~ doctrines with kv-1 and they all suck
Another thing is that brits get extra repair speed with churchills,so they works even better,while soviets just repairing they kv-1 whole match

Guard Rifle Combined arms is a good doctrine. Maybe not the super most meta one, but it's not that bad, especially if the KV1 would be alright.

I think the Churchill is the closest relative to the KV1. I'll do a comparison later on, a mini Churchill would be nice. The proposal overall sounds great and very reasonable

If I were to propose any change it would be something defensive that either allows it to 1) hold it's ground or 2) breakthrough (slowly).

In that vein I'd go with sherman style smoke launchers, some kind of "you can't move but you get buffed" siege mode like ability, or a muni-costing HE skillshot that lets you deal with a blob.

Main problem is that there only 2~ doctrines with kv-1 and they all suck
Another thing is that brits get extra repair speed with churchills,so they works even better,while soviets just repairing they kv-1 whole match

Counterattack, Guards Rifle Combined Arms and Conscript Support Tactics?

Guards Rifle Combined Arms is arguably the most meta T2 doctrine in the game. It certainly was before the Shock Troops buff.

Conscript Support Tactics is almost the same thing.

Counterattack Tactics is the B4 doctrine, so your opinion of it depends on your opinion of the B4.

Counterattack, Guards Rifle Combined Arms and Conscript Support Tactics?

Guards Rifle Combined Arms is arguably the most meta T2 doctrine in the game. It certainly was before the Shock Troops buff.

Conscript Support Tactics is almost the same thing.

Counterattack Tactics is the B4 doctrine, so your opinion of it depends on your opinion of the B4.

not a fan of 2x2,so maybe i wrong

I agree, this tank's offensive abilities are among the worst in the game even when looking at tanks that are 2/3 the price.

Buffing the mg is probably the most effective solution. It's decent vs tanks but terrible vs infantry and if you adjust the AOE that can make it a squad wipe. Nice even MG damage is the safest way to make it effective but not annoying. The T34 was terrible until the hull mg was buffed and th KV1 has essentially the same offensive stats as that terrible t34.

I agree, this tank's offensive abilities are among the worst in the game even when looking at tanks that are 2/3 the price.

Buffing the mg is probably the most effective solution. It's decent vs tanks but terrible vs infantry and if you adjust the AOE that can make it a squad wipe. Nice even MG damage is the safest way to make it effective but not annoying. The T34 was terrible until the hull mg was buffed and th KV1 has essentially the same offensive stats as that terrible t34.

That's because its T34 gun.
And yes, buffing its coax MGs to T34 level would be sufficient.
Its not meant to fight panthers and its durability allows it to be efficient vs P4s and even StuGs to a point, albeit it'll take a long time to win, it'll win.

I was always for buffing MGs before touching the gun for AI purposes as MGs allow for reliable DPS and are pretty safe from random squad wipes.

Buffing the mg is probably the most effective solution. It's decent vs tanks but terrible vs infantry and if you adjust the AOE that can make it a squad wipe. Nice even MG damage is the safest way to make it effective but not annoying. The T34 was terrible until the hull mg was buffed and th KV1 has essentially the same offensive stats as that terrible t34.

+1

So compared to the Churchill the KV1 is/has:
-cheaper 70 MP, 15 FU, 2 POP
-faster by 1,1
-more armor by 30
-better target size by 2
-less HP by 600
-less ROF (probable, can't quantify it perfectly due to missing data)


other points:
-does not need side tech
-has no real utility (unlike Churchill grenade and smoke)

Can't speak about the hull MG DPS.

The 30 more armor is actually a pretty big point, bigger than it looks. Even a Panther has "only" about 80% pen chance at range 50. Basically, Axis have no unit that you can really count on to pen the KV1, besides doctrinal Jagdpanzer and Elefant.
However, the other side is the horrible gun. You can't really pen anything besides lights decently. Both Axis P4s can really trade with the KV1 with each of the three tanks having 35-45% pen chance. Statistically, Axis standard mediums trade economically pretty much equally with the KV1 in tank on tank warfare, but the KV1 has other downsides such as limited AI and mobility which the P4s don't have. Also, P4s perform better vs other higher armor targets due to better pen, while the KV1 more and more sucks the heavier the enemy tank becomes.




-> I agree, make the AI better via the hull MG. AI should be slightly better than the P4s or KV1 should have utility to compensate for lower speed and pen.

it has base damage reduction of 0.8 so it's more than 800 hp

so it has the same health has tiger as it needs 7 shells to die

Agree. But instead of inspire it should just get vet 0 smoke IMO. The secure mode ability is fitting for KV1 and inspire is more suitable for high damage tanks like the KV8 and KV2.

No, heavy tank + smoke = annoying AF.
There was a long thread about churchills because of that too.
Self smoking is bad, as any experienced player has already shared in the forums, that includes Pz tactician to be removed or reworked.

IMO there is no reason for a plain buff to KV1s, other than the vet1 rework.

The unit is doctrinal and means it solves a specific problem in a game, its not a general prupose, core of an army, tank.

Its a sturdier variant of T34s, like T34-85 are the TD variant.
It is a good unit as it is, hard to get the best of it though, but far from being useless to the SU rooster

Buffing it's MG is nice and all but it wont make much of difference in the end cosndering it's cost

What it really needs is smoke, it has very hard time disengaging from P4 and Panther and even shreckblobs if they get close.

Buffing it's MG is nice and all but it wont make much of difference in the end cosndering it's cost

What it really needs is smoke, it has very hard time disengaging from P4 and Panther and even shreckblobs if they get close.

Then make it so they don't close. It's already got a huge health pool it doesn't need EZ mode escape too. Everyone wants every damn unit to hold your hand so you don't lose them. What's next? Immunity when fighting in friendly territory? How about the enemy just auto surrenders after 5 minutes so we don't even have to worry about microing ANY of our army away from its counters?

Buffing it's MG is nice and all but it wont make much of difference in the end cosndering it's cost

What it really needs is smoke, it has very hard time disengaging from P4 and Panther and even shreckblobs if they get close.

The Kv1 will not be effective vs a shrek blob I agree, but buffing the mg could make the unit force off 1 unit with shreks before disengaging instead of shooting 3 times, failing to kill a model and being forced off itself.

Even the Kv8 has trouble with more than 2 pgrenz with shreks, pzshreks are good but expensive