Machine Guns

I think it should be noted that even if we could buff the maxim, how would you intend to do it without forcing worse deathloop or making 6 men mainline with suppression. It's why I voted MG34 over maxim.

Also I don't like how people can vote and then not explain why. .org polls

+1

MG34 is shitty. Its damage is crap and surpression is crap too. Surpresssion is shit due to the cooldown or long breaks it takes. It is just an inconsistent machine gun.

Buggy also, sometimes takes longer than necessary to shoot, as well as some support weapons has that issue.

I just dont see it as reliable at all.

If I talk about Maxim, sure its surpression is bad but look at the other things it has. Fast, maneuverable, deploy time, good damage, 6 man. It literally has one major downside which is its supression. The rest is mostly compensated.

For MG34, I do not see what compensates for the way it under-performs. All there is shit damage, many things. There is really nothing that compensates but just the bloody arc (cone area).

MG34 [...] surpression is crap.

It really isn't

It really isn't

It is kinda.

I will say according to what I think.


Surpression list of MG, across factions:

1./ WEHR MG42
2./ USF 50 Cal MG
3/ UKF Vickers
4./ MG34
5./ Maxim


But the list of units performance and overall effectiveness according to how I feel:

1./ WEHR MG42
2./ UKF Vickers
3./ USF 50 Cal
4./ Maxim
5./ MG34


I mean it looks ridiculous but at this point, I think I would rather go for Maxim because it has elements that compensates such as the mobility, survivability, deploy time, damage that counters the big and only issue, its surpression. That is its only problem.

MG34 has many problems, damage being the weakest and bursts being the slowest compared to the rest. Explaining why its DPS is crap and on top explains even why it fails to maintain good enough suppression. It takes long windups that misses opportunities to suppress the unit.

All in all, I think Maxim is slighlty better than MG34 since its has more pros than cons. Mostly it compensates more for its weakness while MG34 has weaknesses.

That is what I think.

You gotta be the most biased axis main ever to vote for MG42 here

Hahahaha thats what i thought when i seem considerable votes for the best mg in the game.

half of the issues with maxim have to do with VGs incendiary grenade.

Yes is agree 100%. The other half is the deathloop.

The idea to have Maxim do mid-range suppression (which is a good idea) isn't actually feasible with in game tools, as far as I know.

Here are the things you can modify based on distance to target:

Accuracy
Cooldown (time between shots/bursts)
Reload time
Penetration
Cyclic rate of fire (retarded, I know)
Various aim times (time it takes before shooting)

Suppression is unfortunately not on that list. The only way the Maxim gets higher suppression at mid range is to give it higher accuracy, rate of fire, or something similar, which has the side effect of increasing mid range DPS at a 1:1 ratio.

Personally, I don't mind if we did reduce Maxim max range accuracy/RoF (and therefore, DPS) and buffing suppression so that it is reliable mid/close range but I don't really have a say in that matter.

I think it should be noted that even if we could buff the maxim, how would you intend to do it without forcing worse deathloop or making 6 men mainline with suppression. It's why I voted MG34 over maxim.

Also I don't like how people can vote and then not explain why. .org polls

I know this breaks the “6 man” theme of Soviets, but couldn’t you just make the squad 5 man and decrease their RA by 20% each? Their overall survivabilty would remain the same, but the survivability would be focused more onto the gunner preventing it from dying so fast.

I also wish this could be done with the .50 cal, 4 -> 3 man because even though it’s suppression is good enough for it not to get deathlooped most of the time, in rare cases it can happen and it can be frustrating.


I also advocate for fighting weapon crews for OKW as it’d be unique. A while back there was a comment where it was proposed that the Raketen function like a volks squad with a Shreck that works like an AT gun, and the fighting crew on the MG 34 would help it’s bad DPS

The idea to have Maxim do mid-range suppression (which is a good idea) isn't actually feasible with in game tools, as far as I know.

Here are the things you can modify based on distance to target:

Accuracy
Cooldown (time between shots/bursts)
Reload time
Penetration
Cyclic rate of fire (retarded, I know)
Various aim times (time it takes before shooting)

Suppression is unfortunately not on that list. The only way the Maxim gets higher suppression at mid range is to give it higher accuracy, rate of fire, or something similar, which has the side effect of increasing mid range DPS at a 1:1 ratio.

Personally, I don't mind if we did reduce Maxim max range accuracy/RoF (and therefore, DPS) and buffing suppression so that it is reliable mid/close range but I don't really have a say in that matter.

IDK if this can be done, but I think they could add an invisible “coaxial” MG that has no damage, has suppression, has 0 hit chance at close range, some hit chance at medium range, and no hit chance again at long range

So the first “visible” weapon would have suppression 3, 2, 1
The other “invisible” weapon would have suppression 0, 1, 0

So it would equal suppression 3, 3, 1


I couldn’t get the FUCKING mod tools to work on my computer because the 3rd party software required wouldn’t download

MG34 is shitty. Its damage is crap and surpression is crap too. Surpresssion is shit due to the cooldown or long breaks it takes. It is just an inconsistent machine gun

It is kinda.

I will say according to what I think.

No reason to argue based on what you think, when we have the numbers.

Unless I did the math wrong, suppression time for HMGs on neutral cover at ~25 range is:

HMG 42: 1.042s
HMG 34: 1.143s
Vickers: 1.592s
Maxim: 2.564s
M2HB: 0.741s

And these numbers clearly indicate the HMG 34 has very good suppression.


Furthermore its cooldowns and delays are either identical or better than the HMG 42's, with only its aim time being ever so slightly worse:

HMG 42
Delays
Ready aim time near 0.06
Ready aim time mid 0.06
Ready aim time far 0.06

Fire aim time near 0.06
Fire aim time mid 0.06
Fire aim time far 0.06

Cooldown time near 0.75 - 0.9
Cooldown time mid 1.44 - 1.73
Cooldown time far 2.13 - 2.55

Wind up 0
Wind down 0

Burst
Rate of fire near 17.6
Rate of fire mid 16
Rate of fire far 14.4

Burst duration near 2.44
Burst duration mid 2.03
Burst duration far 1.63

HMG 34
Delays
Ready aim time near 0.06
Ready aim time mid 0.09
Ready aim time far 0.13

Fire aim time near 0.06
Fire aim time mid 0.09
Fire aim time far 0.13

Cooldown time near 0.53 - 0.75
Cooldown time mid 1.01 - 1.44
Cooldown time far 1.49 - 2.13

Wind up 0
Wind down 0

Burst
Rate of fire near 15.4
Rate of fire mid 14
Rate of fire far 12.6

Burst duration near 2.44
Burst duration mid 2.03
Burst duration far 1.63

It literally has one major downside which is its supression. The rest is mostly compensated.

Translation:
"It's only major downside is that it can't do it's only job"

You don't buy mgs do get kills. You buy them to suppress. The mg34 does that very well, the maxim is terrible at it. The 34 is better than the maxim

HMG 42: 1.042s
HMG 34: 1.143s
Vickers: 1.592s
Maxim: 2.564s
M2HB: 0.741s

It´s almost like two of these MG´s are either too good or too bad. I wonder which ones it could be.

I know this breaks the “6 man” theme of Soviets, but couldn’t you just make the squad 5 man and decrease their RA by 20% each? Their overall survivabilty would remain the same, but the survivability would be focused more onto the gunner preventing it from dying so fast.

I also wish this could be done with the .50 cal, 4 -> 3 man because even though it’s suppression is good enough for it not to get deathlooped most of the time, in rare cases it can happen and it can be frustrating.


I also advocate for fighting weapon crews for OKW as it’d be unique. A while back there was a comment where it was proposed that the Raketen function like a volks squad with a Shreck that works like an AT gun, and the fighting crew on the MG 34 would help it’s bad DPS

if balanced correctly theoredically that'd help a bit, but the problem is also flame weapons like the flametrack, hetzer, and more commonly the volks incin grenade. RA bonus doesn't help vs these weapons at all and are heavy culprits for forcing deathloop.

if balanced correctly theoredically that'd help a bit, but the problem is also flame weapons like the flametrack, hetzer, and more commonly the volks incin grenade. RA bonus doesn't help vs these weapons at all and are heavy culprits for forcing deathloop.

Okay so

What if

Because the maxim is water cooled

We gave them the 'standing in water' flame damage reduction at all times.

Okay so

What if

Because the maxim is water cooled

We gave them the 'standing in water' flame damage reduction at all times.

Thinking outside the box I like it

I like the incendiary resistance ideas too

Tbh I think the only way to have the maxim do its intended job of suppressing infantry on the defensive without making it too easy if spammed is to separate the Supression from its standard mode entirely.
You could make a toggle to turn on the Supression (could still force a reload but from then on its good while deployed) that would allow it to provide punch with cons when mobile but still function as a MG when set up in advance, but without needing to be vetted to do its job.

Edit--incindiary resistance could make maxims in garrisons a nightmare.

IDK if this can be done, but I think they could add an invisible “coaxial” MG that has no damage, has suppression, has 0 hit chance at close range, some hit chance at medium range, and no hit chance again at long range

I think the problem is much more simply solved by increasing RoF and decreasing accuracy at mid-range. The RoF stat is not tied to the weapon's animation; the Maxim actually already has a super high RoF at close range.

For flame/damage resistance, that may be a good option if it only applies to the soldier manning the gun. That way, it affects the squad's health less, and may mean fewer death loops if the other soldiers die easier. Oh, and it would have to only apply when stationary or when there's more than 1 guy left.

I voted mg42. Because wehr needs it most.
Imo Vickers is doing better mg'ing than mg42.
It has slightly longer range, switch target faster and does higher dps.
Rifle nades and bnades of wehr are bad at clearing allies mg, while allies infantry can flank mg42 faster with their higher moving damages, and their nades are more accurate and faster than mg42 packup time

+1

MG34 is shitty. Its damage is crap and surpression is crap too. Surpresssion is shit due to the cooldown or long breaks it takes. It is just an inconsistent machine gun.

Buggy also, sometimes takes longer than necessary to shoot, as well as some support weapons has that issue.

I just dont see it as reliable at all.

If I talk about Maxim, sure its surpression is bad but look at the other things it has. Fast, maneuverable, deploy time, good damage, 6 man. It literally has one major downside which is its supression. The rest is mostly compensated.

For MG34, I do not see what compensates for the way it under-performs. All there is shit damage, many things. There is really nothing that compensates but just the bloody arc (cone area).

Totally agree with maxim assessment, especially the buff it just got. Suppression is not everything.

Maxim is to be used differently for its strength, speed survival and damages. Supported by cons. Wehr grens definitely have much harder time killing maxim, so its doing its job.

I rather maxim have smaller cone and even higher dps, to make its role more offensive.
Suppression is not everything like i feel

Totally agree with maxim assessment, especially the buff it just got. Suppression is not everything.

Maxim is to be used differently for its strength, speed survival and damages. Supported by cons. Wehr grens definitely have much harder time killing maxim, so its doing its job.

I rather maxim have smaller cone and even higher dps, to make its role more offensive.
Suppression is not everything like i feel

the thing is, other MGs dont really have DRAWBACKS, just stronger strenghts
all of the maxims strengths are offset by drawbacks.
sure its durable, until models start dropping, then it has the death loop.
sure it packs up fast allowing it to try and get around quicker, but its also got a fairly narrow arc and also doesnt actually do anything to units in the arc.

even the mg34 can and does suppress. its slow at vetting which should be addressed, but its cheap at least and isnt restricted by specific tech

suppression is what one builds an mg for primarily, the maxim used to have a small cone, high dps and low suppression, but it wasnt a good mix as it was unable to stop massed infantry, murdered lone squads and was also ideal for spamming. its not a good mix. the addition of the mg34 to the OKW lineup proves that someone somewhere in charge of game design things being able to control infantry is an important role, this is further reinforced by the last usf tech overhaul to make mgs and AT guns more accessible.

all factions should be able to punish blobs. the maxim of all mgs fails at that