For the Love Of God M1 Pack Howitzer

dumping 700MP into indirect isn't a lot

Damn ok

Anyway nerf idea is stupid because usf dont need another mortar better idea is to redesign it to something similar to little priest witout autofire

pretty sure it comes at roughly the same time as the LeIG but the LeIG is garbage by comparison.

Leig is 70mp cheaper than the pakhowy. And bghq is still cheaper than cpt tech.

OKW can also get walking stuka, which is almost impossible to dodge for the Pak howy. Lost so many of those despite moving it the instant I heard the rockets

Leig is 70mp cheaper than the pakhowy. And bghq is still cheaper than cpt tech.

OKW can also get walking stuka, which is almost impossible to dodge for the Pak howy. Lost so many of those despite moving it the instant I heard the rockets

1+

Leig is 70mp cheaper than the pakhowy. And bghq is still cheaper than cpt tech.

OKW can also get walking stuka, which is almost impossible to dodge for the Pak howi. Lost so many of those despite moving it the instant I heard the rockets

70 mp and a lot worse. I'd rather the pak howi like that instead of obliterating 4 man grens. Yes stuka kills teamweapons very well, but that isn't really viable in 1v1 and also why the crew shouldn't have been lowered to 5 man, because you have basically 2% chance you retain the pak howi vet once you hear those rockets.

70 mp and a lot worse. I'd rather the pak howi like that instead of obliterating 4 man grens. Yes stuka kills teamweapons very well, but that isn't really viable in 1v1 and also why the crew shouldn't have been lowered to 5 man, because you have basically 2% chance you retain the pak howi vet once you hear those rockets.

Lower AoE, but much higher accuracy.
LEIG is indirect fire sniper, while pack howi actually acts and performs like a unit between howi and mortar, which it is.

That is your skill problem

2 Pack howitzer is 640MP

it means USF have few infantries

What did u do? just sit in the ground and whining about pack howitzer?

Use light vehicle and play aggressive with your infantries


leig spam is harder to deal with than 2 pack howitzer

Some units simple escaped the indirect fire patch nerf.

The way the Pack Howie was nerfed was simple a band aid to a problem which they would need to address sooner or later.

Some units simple escaped the indirect fire patch nerf.

The way the Pack Howie was nerfed was simple a band aid to a problem which they would need to address sooner or later.

It is not as simple as that. Usf needs units to deal with turtles more than other factions

It is not as simple as that. Usf needs units to deal with turtles more than other factions

So is OKW and UKF. OKWs only indirect is locked behind a subpar tech structure (for 1v1) and UKF don't even get mobile indirect. USF at least have got a t0 mortar and just had a tech rework.

So is OKW and UKF. OKWs only indirect is locked behind a subpar tech structure (for 1v1) and UKF don't even get mobile indirect. USF at least have got a t0 mortar and just had a tech rework.

If okw had indirect comparable to usf, usf would never be able counter leigs sitting next to battle group. Okw can take out an ambulance with one Faust and couple of bullets.

It is not as simple as that. Usf needs units to deal with turtles more than other factions

The Pack Howie needs to be less mortar on steroids without retreat and more Howitzer instead.

The Pack Howie needs to be less mortar on steroids without retreat and more Howitzer instead.

That is cool but we need to find some middle ground. Any changes will have a big impact on usf high lvl play (rank 1-40). Low lvl players(rank 110 or above) are either not knowledgeable enough to switch to Soviets and Brits or just don't care about winning.

This keeps coming up, doesn't it?

Again

It destroys moving units incredibly well...

The problem is, the pack howie basically hard-counters all of Ost's units with nearly zero user input. ...

And again...


It's always the same issue, and it's still the same since the last IDF unit rework/nerf patch. The core problem is that there are units which perform exceedingly well without user input. This doesn't fit in the design of the game; units which don't require input generally aren't that powerful (MG bunker, etc.) whereas units that require a lot of user input are generally quite powerful (sniper). This can of course be skewed by unit cost; a very expensive one can be powerful with less micro (elefant), but it's generally a correct power curve. These powerful, inexpensive AND low micro units are massively off the curve.

Remember the Ost Vet 3 Turbo-Laser mortar? Everyone complained about it massively overperforming; and they were right, because it required zero player input to get results. It was rightfully nerfed, and now fits the 'power curve' well.

Now we're just looking at the current outliers, which happen to the the M1 Pack and the M8A1 Scott. They're both incredibly effective units because they require next to no user input to get results; this needs to be changed.

Are you sure it's not the Scott that's ruining your day?

The pack howie excels against clumped units marching straight up its arc of fire. And even then it's best used in pairs. But if it has to reposition, it really can't hold much at bay, let alone defend itself.

The Scott can kite and chase.

The Pack Howie needs to be less mortar on steroids without retreat and more Howitzer instead.

reduce/remove autofire
reduce cooldown on barrage
?????
still unique but powerful!

reduce/remove autofire
reduce cooldown on barrage
?????
still unique but powerful!

Bad idea. Balance team already tried to reduce auto-attack power without increasing the barrage damage and we got the suppression ability which was worst.

Removing the auto-attack and increasing the barrage's power is a crazy idea on its own because its suppose to make of the pakhowi a dedicated artillery unit which would be mobile so difficult to counter when it is on cooldown.

Imagine we remove the auto-attack and double the number of shells (which is quite a fair trade imo). PakHowi would become completely OP vs structures such as bunkers or OKW trucks, or pak43.
What I mean is if you switch the pakhowi from auto-attack with a weak barrage to weak auto-attack (or no auto-attack) to strong barrage other problems will rise with the pamphlet of complains following it.

I think the unit is balanced at the moment, it can only target one unit, it has a small arc of fire forcing it ot reposition quite often and can't defend itself vs flanking. It counter static play but is much less effective vs moving targets. And yes it doesn't quite a good damage vs infantry without wiping them unless they are already low in health.

The unit has been design around auto-attack because there is no way to vet it with the barrage at the moment which mean that it does what it is supposed to.

Some units simple escaped the indirect fire patch nerf.

The way the Pack Howie was nerfed was simple a band aid to a problem which they would need to address sooner or later.

I really hope the balance team address it soon its the USF meta at the moment. It's accuracy and AOE profile need some significant changes. It should be on par with the OKW leig but it's far superior to it in every way and arguably even better than a more expensive full sized howitzer as it has no cool down and laser guiding squad wiping potential with no timing or skill needed to fire it.

It should be on par with the OKW leig

Why should a 340 manpower unit be on par with a 270 manpower unit? Especially when that 340MP unit is the only stock heavy indirect fire option (as in being the equivalent of rocket arty) the faction has?

Why should a 340 manpower unit be on par with a 270 manpower unit? Especially when that 340MP unit is the only stock heavy indirect fire option (as in being the equivalent of rocket arty) the faction has?

Rocket artillery equivalent argument does not hold any water at all. The mechanism of rocket artillery and Pak howitzer are completely different, so is timing and fuel cost.

If we are talking about roles (providing indirect fire support) USF have enough strong stock options and many very strong doctrinal options.

That does not mean that the power of Pak howitzer should be the same as Leig if they do not cost the same. But pak howitzer is simply too strong for its timing.

Rocket artillery equivalent argument does not hold any water at all. The mechanism of rocket artillery and Pak howitzer are completely different, so is timing and fuel cost.

The mechanisms of rocket artillery and the Pak howie are completely different? Jeez I never noticed that, thanks for the info!! If only I wasn't talking purely about their strategic role!

If we are talking about roles (providing indirect fire support) USF have enough strong stock options and many very strong doctrinal options.

Note how I specifically mentioned heavy indirect fire, as in something that can instantly kill or force off enemy team weapons or blobs (like rocket arty does) of which USF has only one doctrinal unit (Calliope) of which one commander is pretty bad, and only one stock unit (Pak howie) that even comes close to fulfilling that role. The Priest is a decent option too, but it has more of an area denial / hope for lucky wipes role. Scotts are annoying and a bit overpowered but they still need time and numbers to work.

Stripping the Pack Howitzer of its good AOE damage risks making the USF really bad against turtling and forcing them to pick Calliope/Priests doctrines all the time, when most other factions (OST, OKW, SOV) have stock options to deal with it.