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russian armor

Panther armor rebalance.

26 Aug 2019, 07:02 AM
#81
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392



Axis have elephant, jagtigers, and snares. Do what allies have to do to kill one of those beasts. Why do axis players frontally assault everything instead of flanking?


Elefant and Jagdttiger also have to be nerft into ground. They should never be build in 1vs1 and should only give a small benefit in massive multiplayer.

First fix meta.
26 Aug 2019, 07:30 AM
#82
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556



Elefant and Jagdttiger also have to be nerft into ground. They should never be build in 1vs1 and should only give a small benefit in massive multiplayer.

First fix meta.


Bulky tds without turrets and mobility yet still beeds nerfs ? I’ve never had problems dealing with them in 1v1s and 2v2s but in big team games I agree they are “thicc”
26 Aug 2019, 07:30 AM
#83
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 06:28 AMKatitof

If 1 "cheaper 60 range tank" is enough to shut your all armor, you have some serious learning of play to do.
Alternatively, stop spamming panthers against units that aren't even in opponents doctrinal choice?

Panther isn't answer to all golden boy, other units are more suited for other situations, you know, like countering TDs.

If allies can deal with ele and JT, you are mentally capable of learning to deal with much more fragile, less threatening and lower range versions too.


I dont think my suggestion is to buff panther into a direct TD counter. But makes it a overall more suitable tank hunter, late game stock units.

Things have changed that allies have heavy armour supported by 60 very good scaling TD

Besides you cannot compare cheaper But just as effective TD with ele and jt. I don't think anyone has.

Sure the ele and jt are good in 4v4 but in my 2v2 they hardly that good these days.

I would swap ele with double jp4 call in...with boosted pen stats of course.
26 Aug 2019, 18:52 PM
#84
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 07:30 AMJilet


Bulky tds without turrets and mobility yet still beeds nerfs ? I’ve never had problems dealing with them in 1v1s and 2v2s but in big team games I agree they are “thicc”


I am thinking about disabeling gun on the move or a shoting modus making Jagdtiger stationary (mybe only rotation) etc.

So they can be counterd more easy with micro, becoming more or less a gimmik. That allows us to buff stock and make the game balanced, also in massive multiplayer.

26 Aug 2019, 20:12 PM
#85
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

the panther is fine mrgame2... its easily the best tankhunter in game right now and it not only hard counters all allied mediums... it also gives decent AI DPS when upgraded with the pintle machinegun... making it a very strong premium medium...
26 Aug 2019, 21:12 PM
#86
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556



I am thinking about disabeling gun on the move or a shoting modus making Jagdtiger stationary (mybe only rotation) etc.

So they can be counterd more easy with micro, becoming more or less a gimmik. That allows us to buff stock and make the game balanced, also in massive multiplayer.



Well from my knowledge it doesn't fire on the move. Allied players are generally too whiny about it because it denies the stupid TD spam. The thing makes Ele is spotting scope self spot.
26 Aug 2019, 21:18 PM
#87
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 06:28 AMKatitof

If 1 "cheaper 60 range tank" is enough to shut your all armor, you have some serious learning of play to do..


It does for the OKW tho since their stupid Raketen is outranged by every single ATG and TD of allies. Think before writing. And if I am forced to build Jagtiger every single game to counter allied TDs then make it non-doc eh ? So we can say the same thing to allies players "If only 1 heavy ass 85 range tank" is enough to shut all your armor you have some serious learning of play to do.. :hansGASM:

Don't try to settle the issue with JP4 which misses even when standing still
26 Aug 2019, 22:14 PM
#88
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 21:12 PMJilet


Well from my knowledge it doesn't fire on the move. Allied players are generally too whiny about it because it denies the stupid TD spam. The thing makes Ele is spotting scope self spot.


Scope is the next thing, remove it for Ele. Or, remove it for all vehicles. Maybe give 222 a times sight-range ability instead of current version.
27 Aug 2019, 06:20 AM
#89
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 21:18 PMJilet


It does for the OKW tho since their stupid Raketen is outranged by every single ATG and TD of allies. Think before writing. And if I am forced to build Jagtiger every single game to counter allied TDs then make it non-doc eh ? So we can say the same thing to allies players "If only 1 heavy ass 85 range tank" is enough to shut all your armor you have some serious learning of play to do.. :hansGASM:

Don't try to settle the issue with JP4 which misses even when standing still


Please, explain to me in great detail, why does it matter for ATG to have equal range with TD, when no amount of TDs or ATGs(with exception of ZiS) poses any kind of threat to ATG?

And yeah, if you are incapable of correctly using ATGs, you'll be forced to go for EZ PZ no brainer solution.
27 Aug 2019, 06:40 AM
#90
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 06:20 AMKatitof


Please, explain to me in great detail, why does it matter for ATG to have equal range with TD, when no amount of TDs or ATGs(with exception of ZiS) poses any kind of threat to ATG?

And yeah, if you are incapable of correctly using ATGs, you'll be forced to go for EZ PZ no brainer solution.


It is not about hitting the ATG with TD , it is about TD outranging the ATG thus harassing/killing without a risk factor.
27 Aug 2019, 09:48 AM
#91
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 06:20 AMKatitof


Please, explain to me in great detail, why does it matter for ATG to have equal range with TD, when no amount of TDs or ATGs(with exception of ZiS) poses any kind of threat to ATG?

And yeah, if you are incapable of correctly using ATGs, you'll be forced to go for EZ PZ no brainer solution.


The answer is: because infantry and indirest fire weapons will kill your AT easier as it must be closer to the frontline. But this is bascics and You know that so please stop manipulating.
28 Aug 2019, 13:29 PM
#92
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Aug 2019, 06:40 AMJilet


It is not about hitting the ATG with TD , it is about TD outranging the ATG thus harassing/killing without a risk factor.

OKW can build a jp4 which can return fire at allied TDs. The rak in the preview has onky 5 range less than other AT guns so there's that as well.
28 Aug 2019, 14:01 PM
#93
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556


OKW can build a jp4 which can return fire at allied TDs. The rak in the preview has onky 5 range less than other AT guns so there's that as well.


I said the same thing to Katitof that JP4 misses A TON even while standing still.
28 Aug 2019, 14:06 PM
#94
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 14:01 PMJilet


I said the same thing to Katitof that JP4 misses A TON even while standing still.

And I call that bullshit, because it has higher accuracy then SU-85 while having lower target size, in fact, it has same or HIGHER accuracy against all allied 60 range TDs while having lower to much lower target size then each of them.
SU-85 doesn't really struggle hitting anything at any range and neither does JP4.

You're using it wrong if its missing a lot for you, like trying to shoot on the move all the time.
28 Aug 2019, 14:35 PM
#95
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 14:06 PMKatitof

And I call that bullshit, because it has higher accuracy then SU-85 while having lower target size, in fact, it has same or HIGHER accuracy against all allied 60 range TDs while having lower to much lower target size then each of them.
SU-85 doesn't really struggle hitting anything at any range and neither does JP4.

You're using it wrong if its missing a lot for you, like trying to shoot on the move all the time.


And I seriously doubt that.
28 Aug 2019, 14:49 PM
#96
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 14:01 PMJilet


I said the same thing to Katitof that JP4 misses A TON even while standing still.

Are you shooting at scout cars?
28 Aug 2019, 14:55 PM
#97
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 14:35 PMJilet


And I seriously doubt that.


Why? Have you looked up the stats?
28 Aug 2019, 15:09 PM
#98
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2019, 14:35 PMJilet


And I seriously doubt that.


Target size SU85 = 18
Target size JP4 = 17

Accuracy SU85 = near/mid/far 0.055/0.045/0.04
Accuracy JP4 = near/mid/far 0.06/0.05/0.04

According to the online sheet.

JP4 is slightly better, but I don't think this difference will be noticed that often.
28 Aug 2019, 16:02 PM
#99
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 556

I don't know my general experience is they miss a lot. Maybe something old in the spreadsheet since it is not updated since UKF patch.
29 Aug 2019, 02:35 AM
#100
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Aug 2019, 21:18 PMJilet


It does for the OKW tho since their stupid Raketen is outranged by every single ATG and TD of allies. Think before writing. And if I am forced to build Jagtiger every single game to counter allied TDs then make it non-doc eh ? So we can say the same thing to allies players "If only 1 heavy ass 85 range tank" is enough to shut all your armor you have some serious learning of play to do.. :hansGASM:



this comparison isnt fair since the allies dont get a heavy medium/tank hunter with high mobility decent AI DPS with the pintle mg and the armor/durability to 1v1 the aforementioned TD so long as both are in range...
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