Soviet Core changes commander Revamp Patch

You know it looks very starnge - coomon opinion about cons, that are they support. But if you play through cons you always build T2 (Support Kompaneya). We build support cons to support our support weapons, and we build support weapons to support our support cons. Please tell me where in these cursed loop of support hiding mainline infantry?

For T4 it's upgrade come too late. It should be in T3, or if we choose T4, it must be global upgrade for all cons. Because you always expect that upgrade that comes later than others give you the more power, but for such later time this upgrade don't look so nice. In comparsion you can look at OKW, in schwerer they get obers with lmg that good and fit with idea that, what comes the last give you the most. Because in ither options i don't see how SU can play gainst OKW throug cons. You lost infantry battles in early and midgame, and get little chance in late? Seriously?

We'll keep an eye on it. One of the reasons for putting it into T4 is the shock impact of 7 man Conscripts coming online which takes time to clear and LVs such as the buffed Quad and T-70 taking to the field.

On the reason for this upgrade, it provides a little bit of everything without needing to inflate the rest of the squad's stats and means you're not going to have damage concentration like LMGs or extreme tankiness per model that is Riflmen levels. We did not want more A-Move LMGs in the game.

This upgrade ensures Conscript can defeat enemies by forcing attritional damage in favour of the Soviet player thanks to lower reinforce and being able to stay on the field longer thanks to that larger squad. It also ensures fresh Conscript squads stay relevant and their advantage over every other Soviet unit is being the hardest to wipe out, especially when AOE comes into play.

From earlier tests, Conscripts at 7 men will defeat most mainline squads which includes Fusiliers and Volks that try to attack into their cover unless they can start at more favourable ranges.

Can someone from the balance team enlighten me why we need 7 men Conscripts with cover bonus instead of a small and simple buff like slightly better accuracy for the Mosins or cheaper/free grenades, better vet, better RA etc.? To this day I still don´t understand what the idea behind all of this is if I am completly honest.

I would like to know that too. because this decision was just made, although it was a good idea to make an alternative upgrade with guard rifle or weapon improvement, for comparison. But for some reason, this absurd version was chosen without alternative.

Do the SU Paratroopers parachute?

Or

Will they just appear like ghosts?

I just leave it here

2. SneakEye founded a way to make Soviet paratroopers using parachutes and paradrop like other airbourne units. It's not fully animated, but if combined with smoke grenades.

Like conscripts for 6 years, they are viable with commanders who have PPSh-41 and new with SVT-40. That is, we will continue to pretend that the conscripts are fine and blur the problem with the 7th person and the cheap ones.

You are actually mistaken. The was time during these 6 years when conscripts spam was valid strategy and was used frequently even without ppsh. And it was also stale meta.

The is why one should find solutions that creates room for more units than spamming a single unit.

You are actually mistaken. The was time during these 6 years when conscripts spam was valid strategy and was used frequently even without ppsh. And it was also stale meta.

The is why one should find solutions that creates room for more units than spamming a single unit.

This game is based on spam, spam any unit. So this is not an indicator of the strength of the unit.

You are actually mistaken. The was time during these 6 years when conscripts spam was valid strategy and was used frequently even without ppsh. And it was also stale meta.

The is why one should find solutions that creates room for more units than spamming a single unit.

4 grens is standard and you never seem to have any kind of problem with that for some reason.
4 cons was that "spam" of yours(namely, 2 CEs, 4 cons into guards or shocks).
Only exceptions when we have seen more then that was when con PTRS was anti-all weapon.
Lenny was never meta.

I have already said this, in the penals there was no point from the very beginning of the game. At first they were engineers on the steroids, now they are just an infantry squad in conflict with conscripts. And now we come up with ridiculous roles to justify this conflict. And this conflict will exist until the end of the game, and people continue to argue about the buffs and nerfs of conscripts and penals, about which one of them is the main infantry.

and yet penals are in the game and need to be considered. also the conflict WONT exist with the new con changes. you know where they will conflict?: by giving cons polished bolts and fancy barrels and making them t0 penals. if you want a brainless spam of omni potent, packed with utility t0 infantry there is a faction for that, its not the soviet. cons are and always have been intended to be support infantry to allow the soviet to win a war of attrition. they have failed at that job for years, but that is their intended role. they are not and will not be elite infantry, or semi elite infantry. thats not their role. if you want that role there is penals.

7 man conscripts being unlocked by munitions doesn’t make sense thematically. Munitions is for weapons, manpower is for men.

If you want to encourage late game use of conscripts attach a global upgrade to them to teir 4.

Once T4 is unlocked, all cons can now reinforce up to 7 men globally and receive the reinforce cost reduction. Take away the rest of the changes and just leave it as one extra man and less reinforce cost.

It makes more sense to the player and is less impactful to overall balance while still being a buff to cons.

I never liked and still don’t like penal troops thematically and would like to see conscripts as the primary soviet infantry again as they were intended, but the current implementation of 7 man cons is just weird.

7 man conscripts being unlocked by munitions doesn’t make sense thematically. Munitions is for weapons, manpower is for men.

If you want to encourage late game use of conscripts attach a global upgrade to them to teir 4.

Once T4 is unlocked, all cons can now reinforce up to 7 men globally and receive the reinforce cost reduction. Take away the rest of the changes and just leave it as one extra man and less reinforce cost.

It makes more sense to the player and is less impactful to overall balance while still being a buff to cons.

I never liked and still don’t like penal troops thematically and would like to see conscripts as the primary soviet infantry again as they were intended, but the current implementation of 7 man cons is just weird.

Making it a global, however, you'd need to find a way to lockout their upgrades unless you want to adjust those. 7 man Conscripts with PTRS and PPSh-41s is not going to be a fun time for the other side. The upgrade is not meant to compete with Doctrinal items, but give a choice.

and yet penals are in the game and need to be considered. also the conflict WONT exist with the new con changes. you know where they will conflict?: by giving cons polished bolts and fancy barrels and making them t0 penals. if you want a brainless spam of omni potent, packed with utility t0 infantry there is a faction for that, its not the soviet. cons are and always have been intended to be support infantry to allow the soviet to win a war of attrition. they have failed at that job for years, but that is their intended role. they are not and will not be elite infantry, or semi elite infantry. thats not their role. if you want that role there is penals.

These changes do not give a real role for conscripts. They will remain needed in the number of one squad to throw AT grenades. And we will continue to pretend that the conscripts are useful, and people to console themselves with the fact that this 7-person change is a buff. And the USSR has no real alternatives except Penals and Shock Troops if they want to win and not to throw an opponent easy experience.

Making it a global, however, you'd need to find a way to lockout their upgrades unless you want to adjust those. 7 man Conscripts with PTRS and PPSh-41s is not going to be a fun time for the other side. The upgrade is not meant to compete with Doctrinal items, but give a choice.

Would it really be that bad though?

Just one extra man with a reduction to reinforcement cost. That’s all. Remove the other weird bonuses and I think that would be a very small buff that would help cons but not be OP.

Yeah, it might be OP if you kept the veterancy bonus and the cover bonus and all that, so just don’t.

My proposal.

Once T4 is built cons now are automatically given the ability to reinforce up to 7 men and new squads are built at 7 men. They now also cost 17 MP to reinforce.

No other changes. No weapon slot change. No extra veterancy. No bonus in cover.

Just one extra guy and they all cost a little less.

You know it looks very starnge - coomon opinion about cons, that are they support. But if you play through cons you always build T2 (Support Kompaneya). We build support cons to support our support weapons, and we build support weapons to support our support cons. Please tell me where in these cursed loop of support hiding mainline infantry?

As i understand how SU works, you get that support loop to give space for special doctrinal units to do the more delicate stuff. Rushing in - shocks / Figting off LVs and defend - Guards.

T2 playstile its more situational, very team dependent and hardly a self sustaining one. The advantages of it when played with repair cons or repair stations is that gives a decent opening for tank massing or heavy indirect fire playstyle.

Apart from that cons SU cant get any advantage, cons cant swarm like volks do. That would be a good benchmark for cons buff.

I agree with crecer13 about the penal/cons situation. Penals are very useful but outshine easly what cons should do. I wonder if swapping cons to T1 and penals to T0. Along with some little buffs to cons could solve most of SU cons problems.

These changes do not give a real role for conscripts. They will remain needed in the number of one squad to throw AT grenades. And we will continue to pretend that the conscripts are useful, and people to console themselves with the fact that this 7-person change is a buff. And the USSR has no real alternatives except Penals and Shock Troops if they want to win and not to throw an opponent easy experience.

these changes REINFORCE their existing role that they were not meeting. they are not supposed to be usf riflemen, they are something else. they are support. a 7 man con squad will be able to fully recrew an mg or pak or mortar without losing a squad, that alone is HUGE. wiping an mg42 and instantly have a 6 man squad on it? additionally they will reinforce for cheaper. that shouldnt need additional explanation... you want the 8upgrade to remake the conscript, thats not what its doing. its making them better at what they are supposed to do. they will defend longer and reinforce cheaper and merge more efficiently. they are bodies to mold into what you need on the battlefield. they will keep your fighting infantry on the field, they will build you sandbags, deny you cover, snare you tanks. all the things they do now, but with less bleed and more firepower. im not sure what you are against here.

cons are supposed to always be useful no matter what you use them to support- and thats the key here, THEY are the support, not the other units. they are supposed to be the heart of your army, but not the star. they make everything else shine.

these changes REINFORCE their existing role that they were not meeting. they are not supposed to be usf riflemen, they are something else. they are support. a 7 man con squad will be able to fully recrew an mg or pak or mortar without losing a squad, that alone is HUGE. wiping an mg42 and instantly have a 6 man squad on it? additionally they will reinforce for cheaper. that shouldnt need additional explanation... you want the 8upgrade to remake the conscript, thats not what its doing. its making them better at what they are supposed to do. they will defend longer and reinforce cheaper and merge more efficiently. they are bodies to mold into what you need on the battlefield. they will keep your fighting infantry on the field, they will build you sandbags, deny you cover, snare you tanks. all the things they do now, but with less bleed and more firepower. im not sure what you are against here.

cons are supposed to always be useful no matter what you use them to support- and thats the key here, THEY are the support, not the other units. they are supposed to be the heart of your army, but not the star. they make everything else shine.

+1000
Could mot have worded it better myself.

This game is based on spam, spam any unit. So this is not an indicator of the strength of the unit.

And that is my point, good solutions are the ones that promote building more than one type of unit.
Making conscript spam a viable strategies is not a good solution.

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cons are supposed to always be useful no matter what you use them to support- and thats the key here, THEY are the support, not the other units. they are supposed to be the heart of your army, but not the star. they make everything else shine.

I couldnt agree more with that. At least that is the intended use for cons, hopefully it the recent buffs will help it.

And that is my point, good solutions are the ones that promote building more than one type of unit.
Making conscript spam a viable strategies is not a good solution.

Another well said truth, the value of a combined army must surpass its individual ones. Although a cons spam could be the least problematic blob of all, even with their good amount of abilities (mostly supportive). Thats why i still think a price decrease for cons is well deserved

the exact same as we have now without the buff for merge

That was the point I was making. Not pointing fingers but some of those in this thread dont seem to understand the statistical bonuses granted to conscripts via the 7 man upgrade.

these changes REINFORCE their existing role that they were not meeting. they are not supposed to be usf riflemen, they are something else. they are support. a 7 man con squad will be able to fully recrew an mg or pak or mortar without losing a squad, that alone is HUGE. wiping an mg42 and instantly have a 6 man squad on it? additionally they will reinforce for cheaper. that shouldnt need additional explanation... you want the 8upgrade to remake the conscript, thats not what its doing. its making them better at what they are supposed to do. they will defend longer and reinforce cheaper and merge more efficiently. they are bodies to mold into what you need on the battlefield. they will keep your fighting infantry on the field, they will build you sandbags, deny you cover, snare you tanks. all the things they do now, but with less bleed and more firepower. im not sure what you are against here.

cons are supposed to always be useful no matter what you use them to support- and thats the key here, THEY are the support, not the other units. they are supposed to be the heart of your army, but not the star. they make everything else shine.

From the above, we can conclude that the Conscripts is still not needed in more than one quantity. To throwing AT grenades to him add the ability to seize weapons without losing a squad. But it never bothered me, I’ll just build a fresh squad and send it to capture or I can sacrifice current squad, because besides AT the grenades in the late game are useless.

From the above, we can conclude that the Conscripts is still not needed in more than one quantity. To throwing AT grenades to him add the ability to seize weapons without losing a squad. But it never bothered me, I’ll just build a fresh squad and send it to capture or I can sacrifice current squad, because besides AT the grenades in the late game are useless.

Vetted upganned (especially 2 weapon wielding) infatry are far more powerful than vet 0 infatry with no weapon.

This is an issue that is not limited to Soviets. That is part of the reason why people usually do not built grenadiers in late game but pioneers.

The upgrade to conscripts already offers many bonuses.