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OKW Core changes commander Revamp Patch

4 May 2019, 16:59 PM
#41
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



I can work with that, makes sense. But being able to retreat does distinguish it from the zis and m42. Within my suggestion a 5th man is a nice survivability buff, so what would you think about removing retreat (including the other changes too)?

Why does SU always tries to get a hand on raketens? Because it can fall back, same goes for the outperforming HMG42, everyone wants one. Now, retreating on raketens must stay to keep the "i want that" mechanic. 5 man wont cut it and on axis and is just as out of place as a hobo in a spa.
4 May 2019, 18:23 PM
#42
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


5 man wont cut it and on axis and is just as out of place as a hobo in a spa.


There's literally a 5 man squad in the same building as the Rak, and it's the factions' core infantry....

And increasing crew size is much better than reducing RA which wont save it from tank shells. The retreat function is more unusual for an AT gun than 5 man squads are to axis.
4 May 2019, 18:33 PM
#43
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



There's literally a 5 man squad in the same building as the Rak, and it's the factions' core infantry....

And increasing crew size is much better than reducing RA which wont save it from tank shells. The retreat function is more unusual for an AT gun than 5 man squads are to axis.

+1 on increasing to 5 men (I guess that should go for stolen ones too).

I think if it loses retreat it should get a range buff though, somewhere between what it is now and actual AT gun range (since it would still have camo).
4 May 2019, 19:53 PM
#44
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


+1 on increasing to 5 men (I guess that should go for stolen ones too).

I think if it loses retreat it should get a range buff though, somewhere between what it is now and actual AT gun range (since it would still have camo).


Yeah it used to get a 10% range buff (goes from 50 to 55) at vet 4 which they took away. They could bring that back to an earlier vet level or even just give it to the vanilla version, depending on how we decide to nerf it
4 May 2019, 20:09 PM
#45
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Yeah it used to get a 10% range buff (goes from 50 to 55) at vet 4 which they took away. They could bring that back to an earlier vet level or even just give it to the vanilla version, depending on how we decide to nerf it

IMO that on vanilla would be great provided the rak lost its retreat.

Then it still has camo and possibly 5 men to make up for that. It would stop that cheesy bullshit of sneaking 2 raks up and just killing mediums in 2 volleys and retreating. You're not supposed to be able to use raks like 50 range commandos.
4 May 2019, 20:30 PM
#46
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I can work with that, makes sense. But being able to retreat does distinguish it from the zis and m42. Within my suggestion a 5th man is a nice survivability buff, so what would you think about removing retreat (including the other changes too)?


It's retreat + 50 range or no retreat + 60 range imo.

A 50 range Raketenwerfer with no retreat would constantly change hands.
4 May 2019, 21:42 PM
#47
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728



It’s also significantly worse by a huge margin and in a tier structure that everyone skips to get Luch/Puma. It’s not fanboying, it’s the reality of things.


Reality of things is that other than vet leig is fine considering you have the luxary of camping them by trucks and unable to pressure them vs pak howie thats easily pressured or deleted soon and stuka comes out which is about every game
4 May 2019, 21:59 PM
#48
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2019, 20:30 PMLago


It's retreat + 50 range or no retreat + 60 range imo.

A 50 range Raketenwerfer with no retreat would constantly change hands.

The thing still has camo, so IMO it should only have 55. Maybe give it a 5th man to compensate for that (and the fact that it always gets wiped by explosives) though. 60 range and it's just a pak clone but with camo too.
4 May 2019, 22:28 PM
#49
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2019, 08:25 AMVipper


If I am not mistaken (since I have not checked the editor)

+5% Barrage Range
-23% received accuracy
-40% barrage recharge, +33% barrage range
5 shells in barrage
+15% penetration +15% damage


From What I can tell according to its last major changes in may 2018 its:

  • 25% bonus to smoke barrage range only
  • -23% received accuracy
  • -40% barrage recharge
  • 5 shells in barrage
  • +15% penetration, +15% damage, 20% scatter reduction bonus added


Which as far as I can tell, is terrible.
4 May 2019, 22:31 PM
#50
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



From What I can tell according to its last major changes in may 2018 its:

  • 25% bonus to smoke barrage range only
  • -23% received accuracy
  • -40% barrage recharge
  • 5 shells in barrage
  • +15% penetration, +15% damage, 20% scatter reduction bonus added


Which as far as I can tell, is terrible.

Well i am not sure but what ever it is its not very impressive :).
5 May 2019, 00:09 AM
#51
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

How about give the raketen 55 range, but with the doctrinal camo of the ZIS (extremely slow walking speed)?

Edit: Just saw this was suggested in the OKW overhaul thread, no plagiarism I swear. :o
5 May 2019, 06:40 AM
#52
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

Leigh is lackluster for sure but the problem isn't the unit but the inevitable medic truck nearby and flack truck 10 minutes later. Make it better and people will just spam 2 or 3, specially on small maps. Just remember ukf SimCity for more comprehension...
5 May 2019, 08:16 AM
#53
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

For me the leIG18 is the worst arty/mortar ingame. A direct fire mode would be useful, costing some mun, increased fire-rate, worse accuracy.

It would still be easy to decrew, but would offer more aggressive options.



5men Püppchen with 55 range and cover? Sounds good.

5 May 2019, 11:33 AM
#54
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 May 2019, 20:30 PMLago


It's retreat + 50 range or no retreat + 60 range imo.

A 50 range Raketenwerfer with no retreat would constantly change hands.


That's a fair point
5 May 2019, 17:10 PM
#55
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

The vet is poor and built around barrages because every indirect vet is like that since the big indirect fire balance patch

USF mortar, wehr mortar, Soviet mortar, Brit paradrop mortar all have similar vet. If you buff leig vet with stuff like extra auto attack range or RoF then what's the point of the balance team going through all that testing and rebalancing?

You're just reverting the game to leigfest or 120mm parked racking up 40+ kills again
5 May 2019, 17:14 PM
#56
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

The vet is poor and built around barrages because every indirect vet is like that since the big indirect fire balance patch

USF mortar, wehr mortar, Soviet mortar, Brit paradrop mortar all have similar vet. If you buff leig vet with stuff like extra auto attack range or RoF then what's the point of the balance team going through all that testing and rebalancing?

You're just reverting the game to leigfest or 120mm parked racking up 40+ kills again

Compare it with the Pak howitzer vet:

Unlocks the 'White Phosphorous Barrage' ability
Replaces the standard barrage by HEAT +100% damage, +250% penetration, and +100% range.
+33% range, -30% ability recharge
5 May 2019, 17:31 PM
#57
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post5 May 2019, 17:14 PMVipper

Compare it with the Pak howitzer vet:

Unlocks the 'White Phosphorous Barrage' ability
Replaces the standard barrage by HEAT +100% damage, +250% penetration, and +100% range.
+33% range, -30% ability recharge


Pak Howitzer comes much later, is much more expensive, and is meant to be a light howitzer rather than a mortar. The ISG has pretty similar veterancy to all other mortar type units, except it doesn't get extra accuracy for the barrage that other mortars get since the indirect fire balance patch.
5 May 2019, 18:14 PM
#58
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

jump backJump back to quoted post5 May 2019, 17:14 PMVipper

Compare it with the Pak howitzer vet:

Unlocks the 'White Phosphorous Barrage' ability
Replaces the standard barrage by HEAT +100% damage, +250% penetration, and +100% range.
+33% range, -30% ability recharge


Yes again we see vippers "whataboutism" while ignoring the wider picture.

Pak howi has already seen recent nerfs and already is more expensive tech wise. If it needs one or two adjustments more so be it

I'm not sure why you want to undo what was honestly a great vet overhual to changing indirect weapons to countering support weapons and buildings. Rather than "park next to flak truck and forget about it" suppression and vet it had before
5 May 2019, 18:15 PM
#59
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Direct AT Fire is probably the best buff for the LeiG. Make it Battlegroup's Puma.
5 May 2019, 18:26 PM
#60
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post5 May 2019, 18:15 PMLago
Direct AT Fire is probably the best buff for the LeiG. Make it Battlegroup's Puma.


Agreed.
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