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russian armor

Heavy Tank Call-Ins

Require medium tank tech to call in a heavy tank?
Option Distribution Votes
72%
28%
Total votes: 65
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
3 Apr 2019, 14:39 PM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Heavy tanks as is punish the non-heavy tank player for teching. Not having to pay the tech cost means a heavy tank costs the player roughly the same as a normal tank costs the player who techs.

The player who techs shouldn't end up with the inferior unit.

Changes
  • Make the IS-2, ISU-152 and KV-2 require Soviet T4 built to call in.
  • Make the Pershing require Major unlocked to call in.
  • Make the Tiger I and Tiger Ace require the Support Armor Korps or the Heavy Panzer Korps to call in.
  • Make the Churchill Crocodile require UKF T2 (Centaur, Cromwell, Firefly) to call in.
  • Make the Command Panther require the SPHQ to call in (although you can still call it if the SPHQ gets destroyed).

Once this is done, you can safely give the heavies reliable guns.
3 Apr 2019, 14:54 PM
#2
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3

They should require the tech + the CPs as well
3 Apr 2019, 15:09 PM
#3
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

> Put them all in their faction's highest tech building;
> Unlock with CPs (roughly same ones as now);
> Balance their performance (slightly up) and costs (down) to match this availability nerf.

3 Apr 2019, 15:09 PM
#4
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

I do not mind tying heavy tanks to the tier, if make them 0 CP and build them in tiers. Because they come too late, when the game is close to completion and all these heavy tanks come much later than King Tiger.
3 Apr 2019, 15:22 PM
#5
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I think this change will benefit USF TDs even more, since all heavy tanks are delayed due teching costs, giving more space to stockpile fuel and making possible to get a couple of M36.
There is no way double M36 does not beat any heavy tank.
Edit: Unless devs consider sensible to limit jacksons to 1 per USF player...
3 Apr 2019, 15:23 PM
#6
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

apply this to axis heavies, allied ones are fine since they are bad.
3 Apr 2019, 15:24 PM
#7
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

apply this to axis heavies, allied ones are fine since they are bad.

what does "Bad" mean to you?
Straight 1 to 1 comparison is not feasable since each faction has different teching cost and earlier requeriments...
Also allied have the best TD for that reason
3 Apr 2019, 15:26 PM
#8
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 3032 | Subs: 3


Edit: Unless devs consider sensible to limit jacksons to 1 per USF player...


:lolol:
3 Apr 2019, 15:28 PM
#9
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



:lolol:

Or unlocking more than one Tiger for axis :nahnah:
ddd
3 Apr 2019, 17:06 PM
#10
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

Medium tech + current CP requirements. Its so easy to fix.
3 Apr 2019, 19:46 PM
#11
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Given limitation of 1 at a time, I don't think tanks limited to 1 should really require tech.

Spammable tech free mediums were a problem, not limited heavies.

If you're not prepared for a tank by 13 cp, it doesn't really matter where it comes from and makes little sense to have other limit then 1 at a time, unless you want to take that away.
3 Apr 2019, 20:12 PM
#12
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

If you're not prepared for a tank by 13 cp, it doesn't really matter where it comes from and makes little sense to have other limit then 1 at a time, unless you want to take that away.

The idea is that the callin player can play aggressively enough that you in fact DONT have a counter out by 13 cp. Assuming each player has accumulated around 3000 manpower by 13 cps, the callin player can use 2300 manpower to apply pressure to the opponent then have the heavy tank. The teching player has to fend off this 2300 manpower army with, presumablu, a 2300 manpower army of their own. This leaves them 700 manpower to tech and get sufficient counters to the heavy (which is often not enough). Then you have to consider the fact that the callin player can usually get more light vehicles (like t70s) which the opponent has to answer, putting on more pressure and giving the teching player even less room to work with by the time the hwavy tank comes out.
3 Apr 2019, 20:24 PM
#13
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


The idea is that the callin player can play aggressively enough that you in fact DONT have a counter out by 13 cp. Assuming each player has accumulated around 3000 manpower by 13 cps, the callin player can use 2300 manpower to apply pressure to the opponent then have the heavy tank. The teching player has to fend off this 2300 manpower army with, presumablu, a 2300 manpower army of their own. This leaves them 700 manpower to tech and get sufficient counters to the heavy (which is often not enough). Then you have to consider the fact that the callin player can usually get more light vehicles (like t70s) which the opponent has to answer, putting on more pressure and giving the teching player even less room to work with by the time the hwavy tank comes out.


I'm well aware of that, but if the call-in player doesn't invest in tech and gets more armor, he'll be at major disadvantage after that initial heavy use and for that reason I don't consider it as a problem.

If you're in a state, where call-in at 13cp seals the game for you, you likely were losing for quite some time now to not outlast it by 3-5 minutes, which would be the time for that tech fuel to start paying for itself with multiple armored units.
3 Apr 2019, 20:42 PM
#14
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

+1 all the way.

Although "reliable" guns hopefully doesn't mean "reliable 1 shot wipe" guns.
3 Apr 2019, 20:47 PM
#15
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Please make this happen.
3 Apr 2019, 22:45 PM
#16
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 732

No,I think this not fair for Is2 tiger and pershing.
Is2 ,tiger and Pershing just like bigger T34、P4 and Sherman,they can't kill AT gun squad quickly like some flamethrower tank or be a meatshield for friendly unit like KV1 or Churchill
If you do that,you will never see this 3 heavy tank show in battlefield,because 1v1 and 2v2 not have enough fuel for T4-medium tank--heavy tank,and in 3v3 and 4v4,Is2 ,tiger and Pershing can do anything means they can't do anything
And Pershing even can't defeated panther
4 Apr 2019, 00:56 AM
#17
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 479

I almost would like to see Heavies placed behind all forms of tech similar to the King Tiger. Require USF to go CPT/LT/Major for USF, T1-T4 for Soviets, T1/T2 and Hammer or Anvil for the British and require all 4 tiers for Ostheer and all three trucks for OKW. This way all factions have to heavily invest in order to get the call-in tank. But at minimum the changes Lago mentioned would be great for the game. I know the Tiger call-in being tied to all three tech structures in the new commander might end up being to much but that is probably due to the Command Panther still not requiring tech. Hopefully call-in's can be fixed because I really feel it's one of the biggest things holding this game back from being fun to watch at a really high level.
4 Apr 2019, 09:37 AM
#18
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

+1 all the way.

Although "reliable" guns hopefully doesn't mean "reliable 1 shot wipe" guns.


I'd lean towards Brummbar AoE profiles: they'll reliably force squads to retreat. They're very unlikely to oneshot.
4 Apr 2019, 09:46 AM
#19
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

I guess its not that broken for usf when u tech only one officer and u got only stuart or halftruck and then call in pershing mean time okw has acces to rocket arty decent at and ai vehicule witout flak tier so i dont surprise they change tiger1 requirements because for okw call in its more broken
4 Apr 2019, 10:16 AM
#20
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

I guess its not that broken for usf when u tech only one officer and u got only stuart or halftruck and then call in pershing mean time okw has acces to rocket arty decent at and ai vehicule witout flak tier so i dont surprise they change tiger1 requirements because for okw call in its more broken

did your enemy beat you with just a stuart until pershing? yea id forget calling relic on this one there are other issues at play somewhere between your keyboard and chair i think
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