Discuss for the votes

If i knew that totally off the rails commanders are allowed (like both okw suggestions) that would be my suggestion:

1.Field defenses

2.Brithish 6pounder

3.Paratroopers

4.P47 rocket strike

5.Pershing

Advanced Offensive, maybe its not too late, this is the only commander that can even remotely compete with okw suggestions. Or else how am i supposed to go against 12cp tiger with HEAT shells or stuka CAS and pak40 support without getting absolutly demolished?

If i knew that totally off the rails commanders are allowed (like both okw suggestions) that would be my suggestion:

1.Field defenses

2.Brithish 6pounder

3.Paratroopers

4.P47 rocket strike

5.Pershing

no.

Hey guys.

But I have my problems with both Wehrmacht ideas.

The bring nothing new to the game.
I don't see the need of a heavier panzer4.

A lot of people asked for the lighter panzer 4 f1, to have a faster choise against the t34.
But ifi want to have a heavier tank, which comes later I buy a Panther.

Thanks

Its entirely fair to disagree about the heavier P4. I personally would like to see a premium medium that can bang with the T34/85. The Panther counters it of course too very good- but doesn't give you anything against infantry, comes a lot later and its more expensive.
Please also keep in mind that these are just suggestions - we need to test, test, test the concepts. Only actual gameplay will show if ideas are valuable or not. If not - the mod team can just change it.

Ostheer
My feedback concerning Smartie's commander:

Radio Intercept
IMO, this ability would be too strong for Ostheer:
1. Soviets have to make a trade-off between a commander with this ability or with elite infantry, while Ostheer has good infantry right off the bat.
2. Ostheer is the most reactive faction with the best counters. Radio intercept would be even stronger for them than for Soviets.

Suggestion: Replace with reworked assault grenadiers.

Extra training
I feel like the core issue with Ostheer non-flamer pios is how hard it is to vet them. Extra repair speed doesn't mean much if you can't reach the vet 2 repair bonus in the meantime.

Suggestion: Add a way for ugpraded pioneers to vet easier, while retaining the repair bonus and without increasing their combat capabilities. There are different ways to do this:

- Lower vet requirement of upgraded pioneers.
- Let upgraded pioneers gain shared veterancy from vehicles.

I also think a smoke grenade would give them better synergy with vehicles than a satchel.

Panzer 4 Ausf. J
I don't think it should have panzer tactician or emergency crew repairs, so I vote panzer commander or tank detection.

Combined Arms
Replace with Tungsten shells (OKW HEAT shells copy). Ostheer has unused voice lines for this ability.

Command Tiger
I'd like to see the Tiger Ace reworked, but including it in this commander together with assault grenadiers would just make it a better mechanized assault.

Suggestion: Add Smartie's Command Tiger suggestion to the new OKW commander. Replace with reworked hull down, which is currently unviable in most situations. Can't use tungsten rounds while hulled down.

End result
1. Reworked assault grenadiers
2. Extra training for pgrens and pios
3. Reworked hull down (or recon plane if people dislike hull down)
4. Tungsten rounds
5. Panzer 4 Ausf. J

This way, both assault grenadiers and hull down can be reworked, the theme remains fitting and the Tungsten voice lines could be used. The Tiger Ace can still be added and reworked in the OKW commander.

Pls no more commanders. All they do is add annoying shit to the game and detracting from the core gameplay.

...
This way, both assault grenadiers and hull down can be reworked, a "new" unit would be added and the Tungsten voice lines could be used. The Tiger Ace can still be added and reworked in the OKW commander.

Imo this is exactly what the new commanders patch should not be aiming for, it should not try to balance other commander. It should focus in creating a balanced commander that adds something new and interesting.

A commander that improves both infatry (assault grenadiers, extra training) and Tanks (heat rounds/ hull down) should be avoided simply because instead of increasing the meta it tend to replace the meta.

Pls no more commanders. All they do is add annoying shit to the game and detracting from the core gameplay.

What is that core gameplay you are talking about? Back before WFA got released and we had broken pay2win doctrines left and right that were pure cancer? When WFA got released with their terrible faction design? Or when Brits got released who were beyond broken at release?

Dunno how you see it but I think this game gets better with every update since 2 years. Ofc there are mistakes being made but that's human nature, the hotfix patches sort it out quickly. And new stuff is never wrong if you ask me, or do you wanna play the exact same meta for years and call it a day? That's boring af IMO

Dunno how you see it but I think this game gets better with every update since 2 years. Ofc there are mistakes being made but that's human nature, the hotfix patches sort it out quickly. And new stuff is never wrong if you ask me, or do you wanna play the exact same meta for years and call it a day? That's boring af IMO

+1000

Replace with short gunned P4 to keep with the armor theme. Could be either a normal version buildable in T3 or a call-in tank with support abilities (like in my OKW suggestion: https://www.coh2.org/topic/85213/new-commander-submission-okw/page/2#post_id719758)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any viable role for a Pz.IV D/F1 within Ostheer's lineup. There are already the Ostwind, Panzer IV F2 and the Stug E that serve any role the D/F1 would serve. The only other option would be to make it a lightly armored T-70-like light-medium vehicle but that'd be weird since it shares the Pz.IV hull.

It'd be a nice addition to OKW because they lack a dedicated AI vehicle, but not Ostheer.

What is that core gameplay you are talking about? Back before WFA got released and we had broken pay2win doctrines left and right that were pure cancer? When WFA got released with their terrible faction design? Or when Brits got released who were beyond broken at release?

Dunno how you see it but I think this game gets better with every update since 2 years. Ofc there are mistakes being made but that's human nature, the hotfix patches sort it out quickly. And new stuff is never wrong if you ask me, or do you wanna play the exact same meta for years and call it a day? That's boring af IMO

I never said coh2 used to be better. I just said I don't think new commanders improve the game. core gameplay = regular tech units. Commanders in coh2 are extremely flawed. Changing the meta by introducing new commanders is a terrible idea in my opinion.

I never said coh2 used to be better. I just said I don't think new commanders improve the game. core gameplay = regular tech units. Commanders in coh2 are extremely flawed. Changing the meta by introducing new commanders is a terrible idea in my opinion.

I agree, there's only ever going to be 2-3 actually meta commanders per faction because people will gravitate to the stuff that fixes flaws in the faction. They will need to take a completely different approach to commanders with CoH3.

However, CoH2 is way too far gone to fix that now. Might as well get some cool new content and commanders to shake up the meta every so often and keep the game fresh.

I never said coh2 used to be better. I just said I don't think new commanders improve the game. core gameplay = regular tech units. Commanders in coh2 are extremely flawed. Changing the meta by introducing new commanders is a terrible idea in my opinion.

No offense but if you want the same damn thing every time with just some minor balance tweaks here and there you should have a look at StarCraft II. Besides, it's free, for the most part at least.

I play CoH for a few reason which include somewhat historical accuracy as well as the RNG involved in the game, meaning that no 2 matches will be the same.

I agree, there's only ever going to be 2-3 actually meta commanders per faction because people will gravitate to the stuff that fixes flaws in the faction. They will need to take a completely different approach to commanders with CoH3.

However, CoH2 is way too far gone to fix that now. Might as well get some cool new content and commanders to shake up the meta every so often and keep the game fresh.

Is "shake up meta" implies more Overwatch-tier circus? Anyone can clearly smell BS coming from those OKW commanders comparing it to other selected faction commanders

Imo this is exactly what the new commanders patch should not be aiming for, it should not try to balance other commander. It should focus in creating a balanced commander that adds something new and interesting.

A commander that improves both infatry (assault grenadiers, extra training) and Tanks (heat rounds/ hull down) should be avoided simply because instead of increasing the meta it tend to replace the meta.

I think this approach is viable for EFA, considering there are still many lackluster commanders like mech assault, festung armor and fortified armor.

The infantry abilities don't affect Ostheer's core infantry (normal grenadiers), so if assault grenadiers aren't overbuffed, but only get a slight scaling improvement, it shouldn't pose a problem. There's also a lack of indirect abilities, a heavy call-in and recon.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any viable role for a Pz.IV D/F1 within Ostheer's lineup. There are already the Ostwind, Panzer IV F2 and the Stug E that serve any role the D/F1 would serve. The only other option would be to make it a lightly armored T-70 light-medium vehicle but that'd be weird.

It'd be a nice addition to OKW because they lack a dedicated AI vehicle, but not Ostheer.

You're probably right. I just think assault grenadiers (if the balance team does indeed add them) and an improved tiger shouldn't be in a new commander if we already have mech assault. Should replace with Smartie's elite Panzer 4 Ausf. J then.

I think this approach is viable for EFA, considering there are still many lackluster commanders like mech assault, festung armor and fortified armor.

Imo those lackluster commanders should be fixed with patches specifically designed to fix commanders (not necessarily revamps). At this point if one try to fix allot of different things one end up creating at least he same amount of problems one solves. (as clearly demonstrated by revamp patches)

The infantry abilities don't affect Ostheer's core infantry (normal grenadiers), so if assault grenadiers aren't overbuffed, but only get a slight scaling improvement, it shouldn't pose a problem. There's also a lack of indirect abilities, a heavy call-in and recon.

Imo commanders should not offer benefits to the faction across a wide section that includes both vehicles and infatry unless those benefits are minor. Else the have a major impact in balance and can end up in snowball effects.

Superior infatry->faster armor->Superior armor, little counter.

Imo those lackluster commanders should be fixed with patches specifically designed to fix commanders (not necessarily revamps). At this point if one try to fix allot of different things one end up creating at least he same amount of problems one solves. (as clearly demonstrated by revamp patches)

That would be best of course, doubt it will happen tho.

Imo commanders should not offer benefits to the faction across a wide section that includes both vehicles and infatry unless those benefits are minor. Else the have a major impact in balance and can end up in snowball effects.

Superior infatry->faster armor->Superior armor, little counter.

There's wiggle room to balance it:

- Keep the early combat power of assault grenadiers the same, but tweak their veterancy in such a way that they aren't complete suicide to use in the mid/late game.
- Don't include the ability to upgrade pgrens.
- Keep pioneer upgrade fully focused on better repairs, faster vet and utility. Shared veterancy or reduced vet requirement would be best for this.

This way, 4 abilities would be focused around vehicles and only 1 on an early infantry squad, that's not necessarily superior.

Guys - solid picks for the German commanders. Soviet 2 commanders seem a bit lack luster and redundant. The soviet deep battle commander feels like a recycled commander (similar to advanced warfare). The paratrooper soviet is ok unless guards are buffed to worth the cost. I was really hoping for Guards and IS2 doctrine or Shocks with T-34/85s.

The names aren't final, right? they don't match the naming conventions very well.

I'd also like to point out that the Soviets don't have any commanders that add units at minute 0. My suggestion for that, a lend-lease Universal Carrier, gives that option. It can fill in (to a minor extent) for a scout car or maxim. Anything would be interesting to see, though.

Overall, I think adding a Soviet commander with no new abilities would be a mistake, since half of their commanders don't have any unique abilities already.

I agree, there's only ever going to be 2-3 actually meta commanders per faction because people will gravitate to the stuff that fixes flaws in the faction. They will need to take a completely different approach to commanders with CoH3.

However, CoH2 is way too far gone to fix that now. Might as well get some cool new content and commanders to shake up the meta every so often and keep the game fresh.

"Shaking up" the meta for me personally has resulted in a lot of bullshit commanders that annoy the hell out of me. For example light vehicles have become even more prevalent than before with the addition of the new Wehrmacht halftrack thingy, the OKW scout car, the US jeep, the greyhound etc. Light vehicles reuin coh2 gameplay and everyone seems to have accepted it. T70 is still ridiculously op. A lot of others borderline op.

And again changing meta through commanders is beyond stupid. It's basically a "choose your strategy with one click" macro gameplay atm.

For game modes 2 v 2 and up, I personally think light vehicle game play made the game whole lot better.