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russian armor

Idea to fix brit lack of lategame indirect fire

3 Oct 2018, 13:21 PM
#21
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2018, 12:52 PMgbem


Mortar pits can be blown up with 2 ost mortars with relative ease... OKW can flamenade it to death with ease...


if you let volks to flamenade your mortar pit then you did things horribly wrong...

I guess you dont understand the maning of the word "ease" since 2 ost mortars take quite a while to destoy a mortar pit.

Also if you are 1v1 and see 2 ost mortar in front, then you have already won the game. Just rush in...
3 Oct 2018, 14:05 PM
#22
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



if you let volks to flamenade your mortar pit then you did things horribly wrong...

I guess you dont understand the maning of the word "ease" since 2 ost mortars take quite a while to destoy a mortar pit.

Also if you are 1v1 and see 2 ost mortar in front, then you have already won the game. Just rush in...


do you know how weak the brits are? grens can easily own IS thanks to their assortment of abilities cheapness and innate strength... killing the support of a mortar pit is too easy... if you as a OST-OKW player has trouble at doing this then the problem is with you
3 Oct 2018, 14:32 PM
#23
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2018, 11:52 AMgbem


meanwhile OKW OST and SOV all have the tools needed without doctrines? UKF is just bad design... and if you dont see the problem with UKF then look at the GCS tournament for more details...



When brits came out everyone said they are well designed
3 Oct 2018, 15:02 PM
#24
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 422 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Oct 2018, 09:11 AMVipper

I do have to point that if UKF need recon they have a number of tools like pyrotechnic 40.25 sight to 50.25 when vet 1 in cover (same as recon squad), tank commander sight 45, a number of recon planes from air landing officer, command vehicle, FOP and arty flairs.


Oh, oopsies. I didn't know about the pyro sight boost or the vet 1. I forgot about Tank Commander sight because I only really remembered it improved the awful accuracy slightly. As for the other options, they are doctrinal, and I was trying to avoid those.

Thanks for the correction though.
3 Oct 2018, 15:52 PM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



Oh, oopsies. I didn't know about the pyro sight boost or the vet 1. I forgot about Tank Commander sight because I only really remembered it improved the awful accuracy slightly. As for the other options, they are doctrinal, and I was trying to avoid those.

Thanks for the correction though.

Not a problem, things slip out of our minds all the time. I am just glad I could be of some help.
3 Oct 2018, 16:21 PM
#26
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979




When brits came out everyone said they are well designed


until you nerf everything that makes the brits good..
3 Oct 2018, 16:50 PM
#27
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8




When brits came out everyone said they are well designed


That's because faction design and faction balance are 2 completely different things, they are parallel, but different.

Design is fine and unique.
Balance was bad.
3 Oct 2018, 17:32 PM
#28
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450




When brits came out everyone said they are well designed


Nothing was well designed at that time. There were so many ways to break the game on both sides. Don' forget the mess of the game before brits and then the release of brits. We had cheesy things like command panthers and spotting scopes being able to see the whole map, Okw blitz that never missed, firefly rockets that could instantly kill any medium, arty cover, elephants and jags, no heavy tank limit, etc.
3 Oct 2018, 17:36 PM
#29
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1097

I ask one thing. You have problems with pakwalls...
Where are your land matresses?
Just that


Nerfed and in a doctrine.
3 Oct 2018, 19:35 PM
#30
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053



Picking the right doctrine is part of the game, rush your decision and you could make a bad mistake.
If else, you can always get smoke to cover. I dont see anything worth fixing. Just articulate your strategy

Except that like 3 units is the entire ukf nondoctrinal roster have smoke at all, and one of those is the mortar pit and the other two don’t come till late game.



if you let volks to flamenade your mortar pit then you did things horribly wrong...

I guess you dont understand the maning of the word "ease" since 2 ost mortars take quite a while to destoy a mortar pit.

Also if you are 1v1 and see 2 ost mortar in front, then you have already won the game. Just rush in...

You mean like literally retreat once?

And a mortar pit will never destroy two ost mortars because it’ll be dead.

So if you see two ost mortars it’s easy to rush but it’s impossible to get into nade range of a mortar pit?



Oh, oopsies. I didn't know about the pyro sight boost or the vet 1. I forgot about Tank Commander sight because I only really remembered it improved the awful accuracy slightly. As for the other options, they are doctrinal, and I was trying to avoid those.

Thanks for the correction though.

Yeah pyrotechnics sections are very good recon as is. Something needs to be done about the flare throw range though, as they are a lot less useful for clearing actual fortifications when you have to run halfway into said fortifications and then throw a flare at it.
3 Oct 2018, 20:12 PM
#31
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



OKW commander upgrade would still be stronger than my suggestion

buffed OKW commander blows brit tank commander out the water, check the changes they made. The doctrine is really good now, especially with HEAT rounds.


Los and accuracy is aight, but I maintain that the brit commander should have had the arty utilizing the fancy arty they have and the OKW should have had the elite armour commander as a way to potentially gain.... Elite armour
3 Oct 2018, 20:15 PM
#32
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 422 | Subs: 2

Perhaps make Pyro arty call-in just drop normal arty flares? Not the special snowflake flare? No lengthy throw animation, can be 35 range without looking silly, and in-line with similar artillery spotters, like Pathfinder or Major.

Also, for the idea of smoke, what about giving Sappers WP smoke grenades? Garrison clear and smoke, you just can't walk through it without dying unlike normal smoke. Personally, I'd rather see that than an HEAT grenade (didn't exist IRL AFAIK) and give Infantry Sections a button vehicle ability that requires brens.
3 Oct 2018, 21:11 PM
#33
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Nvm (invis pls)
3 Oct 2018, 22:09 PM
#34
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

Perhaps make Pyro arty call-in just drop normal arty flares? Not the special snowflake flare? No lengthy throw animation, can be 35 range without looking silly, and in-line with similar artillery spotters, like Pathfinder or Major.

Also, for the idea of smoke, what about giving Sappers WP smoke grenades? Garrison clear and smoke, you just can't walk through it without dying unlike normal smoke. Personally, I'd rather see that than an HEAT grenade (didn't exist IRL AFAIK) and give Infantry Sections a button vehicle ability that requires brens.


Button would just be negated by panzer tac on all ostheer vehicles and they would be bullied all the same with mobile defense meta. Maybe a snare ability on PIAT could work.

But personally I am a big fan of the HEAT grenade in the mod, it works well with sappers.
4 Oct 2018, 00:04 AM
#35
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Perhaps make Pyro arty call-in just drop normal arty flares? Not the special snowflake flare? No lengthy throw animation, can be 35 range without looking silly, and in-line with similar artillery spotters, like Pathfinder or Major.

Also, for the idea of smoke, what about giving Sappers WP smoke grenades? Garrison clear and smoke, you just can't walk through it without dying unlike normal smoke. Personally, I'd rather see that than an HEAT grenade (didn't exist IRL AFAIK) and give Infantry Sections a button vehicle ability that requires brens.

That’s getting into possibly very cheesy territory though. I’d prefer if they actually had to throw it still, but with better range. I just think the instantaneous nature of actual arty flares is out of place for this ability and would be a bit frustrating to play against.
4 Oct 2018, 00:47 AM
#36
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29

Remember the pyrotechnics upgrade comes with increased LOS so you shouldn't really be running into unscreened MGs with it anyway.

I feel as though things have slowly been moving towards more use of the base howitzers with the addition of the healing forward HQ making it not necessary to get the heal upgrade on the tommies. The flares could probably do with a small range increase, I don't think it would be good for it to be all the way to 35 range though.
4 Oct 2018, 01:42 AM
#37
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

Remember the pyrotechnics upgrade comes with increased LOS so you shouldn't really be running into unscreened MGs with it anyway.

I feel as though things have slowly been moving towards more use of the base howitzers with the addition of the healing forward HQ making it not necessary to get the heal upgrade on the tommies. The flares could probably do with a small range increase, I don't think it would be good for it to be all the way to 35 range though.

Yeah I agree, but the issue is that you have to to throw the arty flare unless you outflank their position, in which case you might as well just shoot it. IMO just under small arms range would be a fair range for the flare.
4 Oct 2018, 19:57 PM
#38
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

Remember the pyrotechnics upgrade comes with increased LOS so you shouldn't really be running into unscreened MGs with it anyway


while this is true on certain maps axis can just lock down the support+command tank blob on a mid VP and you have no chance but to run into it. Very easy to do on maps like kholdny, crossroads and even crossing that only have limited approach paths.

you can build a mortar pit or invest in a cromwell for smoke but it makes the whole attempt at calling in indirect even longer and more obvious, all he has to do is move his MG a bit back.
4 Oct 2018, 20:05 PM
#39
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29



while this is true on certain maps axis can just lock down the support+command tank blob on a mid VP and you have no chance but to run into it.

you can build a mortar pit or invest in a cromwell for smoke but it makes the whole attempt at calling in indirect even longer and more obvious, all he has to do is move his MG a bit back.


I'm not sure this is true but then on certain maps use certain commanders
4 Oct 2018, 20:07 PM
#40
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



I'm not sure this is true but then on certain maps use certain commanders


But here's the "use land mattress etc" argument again, if OKW got an MG, flame nade and P4 non doc then I don't see why brits should suffer so much with awkward to use base howitzers.
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