Idea to fix brit lack of lategame indirect fire

Give cromwells and valentines the option to shoot a 30 range "marker" shell for 60 muni that calls in base arty.

Trade off is this ability is linked to Hammer tech so locks you out of airburst. But still it gives brits a tool to deal with support weapon wall, albeit it one that takes a while to call in and is fairy obvious to dodge.

The reasons for this being IS with pyro upgrade just will not even get close to a pakwall late game, vet MG42 and even mines and bunker spam obvious issues to a faction with no non-doc rocket arty. OKW sim city is the main offender here.

I think the commander upgrade should have been the one okw elite armour had (Los and arty but the arty being base howis) and the OKW ELITE ARMOUR one should have been the vet gain and detection and accuracy. Maybe they mixed them up?

Make Pyrotechnic Flare free, and put it behind a player-wide cooldown to prevent spammed usage by multiple squads. Give the upgraded squad a toggle ability to semi-stealthily crawl (revealed at range 20-25?) so as they don't get pinned by unscreened MGs before throwing the flare. The beauty of it is that there are already in-game assets for such an implementation because of the cut Recon Infantry Sections had the crawl ability (There might also be unused voicelines for the sneaky beaky, but I'm not sure).

Sniper's arty flare can still cost muni since it doesn't require an upgrade, but a cost reduction would also be welcome.

Another interesting idea is to add a Victor Target to the ability that would also cause Sextons or Mortar Pits on the field and in-range to barrage the area as well. However, the ability itself should remain free or low-cost, so instead, the upgrade for Infantry Sections itself should be increased if the Victor Target is to be added.

I think this is the most elegant way to tackle Brit indirect fire without adding any new units. It also solves Brit muni starvation.

Make Pyrotechnic Flare free, and put it behind a player-wide cooldown to prevent spammed usage by multiple squads. Give the upgraded squad a toggle ability to semi-stealthily crawl (revealed at range 20-25?) so as they don't get pinned by unscreened MGs before throwing the flare. The beauty of it is that there are already in-game assets for such an implementation because of the cut Recon Infantry Sections had the crawl ability (There might also be unused voicelines for the sneaky beaky, but I'm not sure).

Sniper's arty flare can still cost muni since it doesn't require an upgrade, but a cost reduction would also be welcome.

Another interesting idea is to add a Victor Target to the ability that would also cause Sextons or Mortar Pits on the field and in-range to barrage the area as well. However, the ability itself should remain free or low-cost, so instead, the upgrade for Infantry Sections itself should be increased if the Victor Target is to be added.

I think this is the most elegant way to tackle Brit indirect fire without adding any new units. It also solves Brit muni starvation.

I support this change, however the crawling aspect is unnecessary; an easier implementation would be to extend the flare range to 35m. It’s fine as it isn’t really a grenade, and there is enough time for counter-play before the 25-prd shells fall.

Remove the flare from the Sniper.

However, I would also like to see British tanks to be able to toss flares as well (using the existing grenade-out of-hatch animation). Perhaps it could be implemented as part of the Vehicle Commander upgrade.

I support this change, however the crawling aspect is unnecessary; an easier implementation would be to exten the flare range to 35m. Remove the flare from the Sniper.

However, I would also like to see British tanks to be able to toss flares as well (using the existing grenade-out of-hatch animation). Perhaps it could be implemented with the Vehicle Commander upgrade.

Pyrotechnics could redesign to an upgrade that turned IS to Recon infantry section who could perform as normal infantry without the "cover mechanism". (they would probably have to lose weapon slots and maybe use scoped infields)

Tank being able to hard counter ATGs with artillery will probably prove problematic.

One can already test this with "elite armor" and valentine (which would become rather pointless if all UKF armor get a similar ability).

Pyrotechnics could redesign to an upgrade that turned IS to Recon infantry section who could perform as normal infantry without the "cover mechanism". (they would probably have to lose weapon slots and maybe use scoped infields)

I have a good feeling that that won't be needed becouse we will probably get the rifle scope upgrade and the recon infantry section in a future december commanders.

I support this change, however the crawling aspect is unnecessary; an easier implementation would be to extend the flare range to 35m. It’s fine as it isn’t really a grenade, and there is enough time for counter-play before the 25-prd shells fall.

I just think that having a soldier lob something further than the range of a riflenade looks rather silly. The sneaky beaky crawl would also allow Brits to have some sort of non-doc recon, however clunky it is, sorta like how OKW does raketenwerfer recon. Soviet has flares, Ostheer has Pioneer sight, USF has Major recon, and OKW has IR HT/raketen cheese. UKF is the only faction without some sort of recon.

EDIT: Forgot to quote AtomicRockets

Make Pyrotechnic Flare free, and put it behind a player-wide cooldown to prevent spammed usage by multiple squads. Give the upgraded squad a toggle ability to semi-stealthily crawl (revealed at range 20-25?) so as they don't get pinned by unscreened MGs before throwing the flare. The beauty of it is that there are already in-game assets for such an implementation because of the cut Recon Infantry Sections had the crawl ability (There might also be unused voicelines for the sneaky beaky, but I'm not sure).

Sniper's arty flare can still cost muni since it doesn't require an upgrade, but a cost reduction would also be welcome.

Another interesting idea is to add a Victor Target to the ability that would also cause Sextons or Mortar Pits on the field and in-range to barrage the area as well. However, the ability itself should remain free or low-cost, so instead, the upgrade for Infantry Sections itself should be increased if the Victor Target is to be added.

I think this is the most elegant way to tackle Brit indirect fire without adding any new units. It also solves Brit muni starvation.

I actually really like this idea the more I think about it.

The sniper should get a throw range increase, as it stands it’s a bit unusable in a lot of situations because he’ll get mowed down if he reveals himself at the flare throw range.

It's already under a global cooldown. It just needs the cost reduction/removal, range increase and possibly a reduction in the number of shells fired by the base arty to compensate.

I ask one thing. You have problems with pakwalls...
Where are your land matresses?
Just that

... UKF is the only faction without some sort of recon.

I do have to point that if UKF need recon they have a number of tools like pyrotechnic 40.25 sight to 50.25 when vet 1 in cover (same as recon squad), tank commander sight 45, a number of recon planes from air landing officer, command vehicle, FOP and arty flairs.

I ask one thing. You have problems with pakwalls...
Where are your land matresses?
Just that

They're doctrinal. UKF's reliance on doctrines for basic tools isn't a good thing.

They're doctrinal. UKF's reliance on doctrines for basic tools isn't a good thing.

Picking the right doctrine is part of the game, rush your decision and you could make a bad mistake.
If else, you can always get smoke to cover. I dont see anything worth fixing. Just articulate your strategy

Picking the right doctrine is part of the game, rush your decision and you could make a bad mistake.
If else, you can always get smoke to cover. I dont see anything worth fixing. Just articulate your strategy

Nothing worth fixing with UKF?

As for doctrine choice, there's a difference between a doctrine giving you a game changing alternative tool like a Puma and relying on doctrines to fill out your basic roster.

SOV, OKW and OST have pretty solid nondoctrinal lineups since SOV got PTRS Penals, USF used to be missing vital tools but with SBP's mortar buffs versus garrisons they've also got a near enough full roster.

UKF finally gets snares next patch, but basic indirect fire is still in a bad spot for them.

Picking the right doctrine is part of the game, rush your decision and you could make a bad mistake.
If else, you can always get smoke to cover. I dont see anything worth fixing. Just articulate your strategy

meanwhile OKW OST and SOV all have the tools needed without doctrines? UKF is just bad design... and if you dont see the problem with UKF then look at the GCS tournament for more details...

I think it's fair to overhaul the pyrotechnics mechanics in ways that are suggested above, to compensate for the fact that the Brits have no mobile mortars.
Perhaps even add an option for smoke shells.

However I think a global cooldown might not be enough of a penalty for the free use. It might be needed to tone down the AOE (especially against garissons) so it acts more like a double mortar barrage. It could get its destructive power back after the Hammer/Anvil upgrades.

meanwhile OKW OST and SOV all have the tools needed without doctrines? UKF is just bad design... and if you dont see the problem with UKF then look at the GCS tournament for more details...

Mortar pits are though to destroy and provide good support fire. Also pyro IS are good to deal with a Pakwall. UKF is desingned as a stationary faction, it suffers from it. Its not bad design.

I think the commander upgrade should have been the one okw elite armour had (Los and arty but the arty being base howis) and the OKW ELITE ARMOUR one should have been the vet gain and detection and accuracy. Maybe they mixed them up?

OKW commander upgrade would still be stronger than my suggestion

buffed OKW commander blows brit tank commander out the water, check the changes they made. The doctrine is really good now, especially with HEAT rounds.

Make Pyrotechnic Flare free, and put it behind a player-wide cooldown to prevent spammed usage by multiple squads. Give the upgraded squad a toggle ability to semi-stealthily crawl (revealed at range 20-25?) so as they don't get pinned by unscreened MGs before throwing the flare. The beauty of it is that there are already in-game assets for such an implementation because of the cut Recon Infantry Sections had the crawl ability (There might also be unused voicelines for the sneaky beaky, but I'm not sure).

Sniper's arty flare can still cost muni since it doesn't require an upgrade, but a cost reduction would also be welcome.

Another interesting idea is to add a Victor Target to the ability that would also cause Sextons or Mortar Pits on the field and in-range to barrage the area as well. However, the ability itself should remain free or low-cost, so instead, the upgrade for Infantry Sections itself should be increased if the Victor Target is to be added.

I think this is the most elegant way to tackle Brit indirect fire without adding any new units. It also solves Brit muni starvation.

Camo ability and some sort of pyro with cheaper cost would work too, but right now something has to budge. P4 command tank in a support weapon blob + teller spam on certain maps is just gg to brits

I ask one thing. You have problems with pakwalls...
Where are your land matresses?
Just that

it's doctrinal, which is why I mentioned non-doc arty. If brits decided to camp with command tank and MG+6pdr blob OKW or Ost just build a rocket unit and slowly wipe everything even if they went for a doctrine pick with tiger and stuka. Brit's can't really do that, you have to Crutch on one or two doctrines like Hans does and play everything perfectly. Which in turn locks you out of all the juicy docs like Ost or Sov can pick without hesitation.

Using crutch doctrinal units to fill factional holes is not fan gameplay, this is why OKW were given a non-doc panzer 4 and MG34.

Mortar pits are though to destroy and provide good support fire. Also pyro IS are good to deal with a Pakwall. UKF is desingned as a stationary faction, it suffers from it. Its not bad design.

Mortar pits can be blown up with 2 ost mortars with relative ease... OKW can flamenade it to death with ease...